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I've always stuck to Fantasy in the past but I am moving back to my homeland in a few months and while I have been away they all seem to have gone over to 40K. Means I finally have to succumb!
My thoughts are to use Deamons due to their overlap into Fantasy. (So something that can work under both systems would be ideal if possible - Soul Grinders might have to wait!)
I'm working my way through the threads on this site but its a maze and I would appreciate a start!
I love painting figures and quite fancy the Deamonettes of course!
I need to be fairly competitive as my old friends all are but something photogenic is essential!
I am very wary about going over to the dark side of Chaos and 40K so be gentle with me!!
Say 1500 points? I have a few months to get painting.
Last edited by BlingBlingOrc; December 8th, 2008 at 09:14.
Well you've made a good choice, Daemons are great in both systems so you shouldn't be disappointed.
What's good in both systems:
Plaguebearers-These guys are nigh unkillable, which is great for 40k as they can hold objectives and icons to ensure your army arrives safely. In Fantasy they require a Herald to be good (T4, 5+ ward, Regeneration, Fear, ITP, Unbreakable!) but with him they are truly insane.
Horrors-In 40k they provide all to necessary firepower to kill infantry and have good protection in the form of a 4+ invulnerable. In Fantasy they are Core magic users! The more you take, the more levels you have (so 40 Horrors gives you a level 4 mage as a Core choice!) so you can trick them out completely or take a small unit for cheap dispel dice that won't easy up character slots and a very good basic spell.
Flamers-In 40k these guys can roast anything with breath of chaos (flamer that ignores armor) and in Fantasy they are some of the best skirmishing missile troops in the game (D6 S4 shots each).
Greater Daemons-Any GD is worth its weight in gold in either system for the sheer power they bring to the table. GUO doesn't die, BT kills everything, LoC blasts with magic from afar, and the KoS does a bit of both (magic and combat).
Bloodcrushers-They hit like a freight train in Fantasy (2A and S6 plus 2A from the Jugger at S5) but are fairly fragile (1W, 4+ armor, 5+ ward). In 40k these guys are the be all of Elites choices, T5 2W 3+/5++ and Eternal Warrior makes them incredibly tough and the dish out so much pain, the only downside is their infantry speed.
Fiends-In Fantasy they are super fast and super killy against light troops, skirmishers, fast cav, and war machine crews in addition to supporting other units as well. In 40k they are extremely fast, much tougher than normal Slaaneshi units and put out a ton of rending attacks.
Heralds of Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeentch-In Fantasy they are the killiest, fastest/tricksiest and magickiest, respectively and they buff Daemons of their god (Hatred for Khorne, ASF for Slaanesh, increased ward for Tzeentch). In 40k they are cheap and do a lot of damage, Khorne is pure high S power weapons, Slaanesh is fast with rending, and Tzeentch is the shooty one.
Flesh Hounds-The best unit in the Fantasy book after the Bloodthirster, hands down. In 40k they are the only Khorne unit that does not ignore armor, but with 2A each at S4 I4 with furious charge and cavalry movement they can tear up lighter infantry or tie down problem units. Add Karanak and a Fury upgrade and they re-roll difficult terrain and add some rending attacks.
Seekers-Amazingly speedy cavalry (M10) that tear up light infantry, missile troops, skirmishers, fast cav, and war machine crews. In 40k they move like cavalry and put out a ton of rending attacks for a relatively low cost.
Screamers-Flyers that hurt enemies as they move over them, great for disrupting the enemy and causing problems. In 40k they are jetbikes with melta bombs and the bane of all vehicles.
The rest of the units are situational (Beasts of Nurgle and Nurglings are only good in a pure Nurgle Epidemius army) or good in one system but not the other (DPs and Grinders are fantastic in 40k, but suck or don't exist in Fantasy, Furies are awesome in Fantasy but crap in 40k).
So you really can't go wrong. The biggest different between a 40k and Fantasy army will be the prevalence of MCs (without Soul Grinders you may need as many as 3, 1 GD and 2 DPs with the option for more) and loading up on Elites choices (Rare in Fantasy, so you'll have 3 choices instead of 2).
What were you planning on running?
Fantastic and exactly what I needed to know. I have been trying every day to post my thanks!
From your list it looks as though Khorne is going to have a bit of a priority. Although I was hoping for more Slaanesh - Deamonettes don't work?
So I seem to be looking at:
I haven't quite got my head around unit sizes yet - the 40K units look much smaller than the fantasy so there could be some differences there also.
Oh yes, and I also noticed the prices for Daemon units - ouch!!! Hit harder than a juggernaught! And nothing on eBay that I can see.
Maybe there will be more posts on this now it has stopped hanging,
My objective is to get to 1500 points 40K / 2000 points Fantasy
Last edited by BlingBlingOrc; December 12th, 2008 at 05:41. Reason: added points objectives
Did I completely forget Bloodletters and Daemonettes?! ==My== apologies. While they aren't as OMGWTFH4X as Plaguebearers and Horrors, they are both very good. Bloodletters are excellent can openers, capable of ripping apart Space Marines and Bretonnian Knights alike. Daemonettes are speedy and excel at munching lighter infantry, their rending in 40k combined with lots of attacks also makes them good at killing just about anything while in Fantasy they have plenty of swings at S3 with AP.
That looks like a good start, all you'll need is some core/Troops units. One thing to beware of, Fantasy only allows 2 Rare choices at 2000 (Bloodcrushers, Fiends, Flamers, Beasts) while 40k has 3 Elite slots (Bloodcrushers, Fiends, Flamers, Beasts) so you may have to simply settle with two of those unless you are ok with having a unit not used every game.
Based on your cross-over tips above, cool looking figures and not having to buy too many figures to start with! I've come up with the following. I make this 2000 pts for Fantasy and will start to work out its 40K cost. Interesting codex and soooo different from my beloved goblin armies!
Keeper of Secrets + Obsidian Armour + Spell Destroy
Herald of Khorne + Juggernaut + Ethersblade
with 5 Bloodcrushers with reaper and icon of endless war (SPECIAL)
Either Herald of Tzeench or Herald of Slaanesh +gift
10 Deamonettes + full command + icon
10 Bloodletters + full command + totem
10 Horrors + full command
I think I am now getting a better idea of how things work and will study the 40K codex and other lists. Will also appreciate comments on how this looks to an experienced eye as possible 40K list. (Before I start forking out)
Umm, I think you may want to check your sources. Keepers can't get Obsidian Armor or Spell Destroyers and Bloodcrushers are Rare
The Keeper provide awesome magic and is a beast in combat, I'd go for a level 4 with Siren Song and any other items as you want them.
Khorne Heralds are S6, the Etherblade is unnecessary. Armor of Khorne combined with the Jugger gives him a 0+ save and the Firestorm blade provide S7 and flaming attacks!
Masque is awesome.
Bloodcrushers are stupidly expensive in Fantasy and not all that resilient, I'd only go for a unit of 2 as +1 for ranks isn't worth 210 points and their frontage is ridiculous even 3 wide.
A Tzeentch Herald would give you some extra magical punch, I like Master of Sorcery and Winged Horror for a cheap flying trump card. Also consider the Icon of Great Despair to make the most of the Masque and KoS's leadership destruction.
Go for 12 minimum of Bloodletters and Daemonettes, 6x2. Musician is really all you need, champions are too expensive and standards are free VPs for your opponent.
Horrors never need a command unless the unit is big, keep them around for cheap dispel dice and the occasional flickering fire. If anything, toss in the Icon of Sorcery.
Screamers work better split up because of their big bases, you can also hit more enemies at once.
With Daemons, if you're going to skimp on Core you should just go for Horrors as you can never have enough power and dispel dice. Daemonettes make excellent cheap flankers and can rip up ligher infantry (they can also be an amazing expendable anvil unit with the Banner of Ecstasy, making them stubborn for the first break test), while Bloodletters excel at tearing up elite infantry and characters.
Taking points away from the Bloodcrushers and re-jigging your characters should leave you enough points to pick up some Flamers or Flesh Hounds to provide some extra dakka/chop.
If I wanted a crossover list, it would either be a pure Nurgle Epidemius set up or based around a bunch of Plaguebearers. 2 units of 10 in 40k or 1 unit of 20 in Fantasy with a Herald. After that, Horrors, Bloodcrushers, Flesh Hounds, Fiends, Soul Grinders and a GD with a couple Heralds.
Ha ha. So apart from that I did OK right? lol
The horrors worry me a bit sa the army doesn't seem to have a lot of magic protection outside these. And yet, as far as I could see on the GW site that would cost almost £100 just for one unit! Are there any other ways of building up magic protection?
Deamonettes and bloodletters look like they come in boxes of 10 which makes units of 12 a pain. How about 20s if 10 is not enough? Seems bizarre to be chucking away 8 from each box.
By the way, I can see some really cool spells there doesn't seem to be many dice to get them off. Is this a problem with Daemons?
I like the sound of the pure Epidemius set up which is in slight contrast to my pure Epidemiusless set up above. Not sure what it will means but will have a look.
Maybe with Deamonettes and Letters or is it just Nurgle?
I will also have a look at the set up you suggested - 'Epidemius set up or based around a bunch of Plague bearers - 2 units of 10 in 40k or 1 unit of 20 in Fantasy with a Herald. After that, Horrors, Bloodcrushers, Flesh Hounds, Fiends, Soul Grinders and a GD with a couple Heralds. '
I'll try and work it out and submit more homework for marking soon Obi Wan!!
PS - Shame Soul Grinders don't cross over
Horrors aren't required, but usually if you can't thing of anything else just go for Horrors. If magic concerns you, look no further than the Standard of Sundering. It neuters a lot of magic and ends up fairly cheap. Otherwise, go for cheap dispel dice in the form of Horrors and level 1 mages.
I use WE Dryads for Horrors (or sprue daemons, but that's another topic), which helps costs a lot.
I like to run 2 units of 12-15 for Bloodletters and Daemonettes, so that's 2 boxes of each. 10-20 will work as well.
Your best spellcasters will be Greater Daemons, Heralds max at level 1 (2 for Tzeentch and they are using Master of Sorcery anyway) so they should stick with their basic spells (which are quite good).
Pure Epidemius is mostly Nurgle to get the tally racked up (only kills from Nurgle units count) and boost your army to awesome levels. Wounding on a 2+ and ignoring armor in 40k, +3 to cast and 4+ poison in Fantasy.
I don't claim to be the ultimate authority on Daemons, I simply offer ==My== humble experiences. Any advice I give is far from absolute truth so feel free to experiment or use another set up that appeals to you.
You've been a great help.
I've looked again at Epidemius as I skipped past him first glance. Great idea. Would give a real character army and looks good on both lists. This looks like the way to go for me.
The tip on the WE Dryads is great too. I even have a bunch of those from an old WE army that never sees the light of day. Converting and painting is my favourite part anyway. It's got me thinking about what else I can recycle as I also have stacks of old Empire, dwarfs (?!) and far more goblins than I will ever need (a wierd form of addiction to the little fellahs.)
Hmmm. There must be plenty of other stuff knocking about.
Good thinking fellah!
Back to the drawing board for me working out a cross-over Nurgling army.
Unless you have any more pearls of wisdom ....
Happy to help
Epi really makes Nurgle lists extremely good in 40k and Fantasy, but he does restrict you a bit since only kills from Nurgle models count so you may want to spend less on other units. I'd still field Horrors for dispel dice in Fantasy and Screamers in 40k to hunt tanks, but mostly it's just letting your Nurgle units rack up the damage (mostly Princes in 40k, the GUO and poison in Fantasy).