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After flicking thorugh the chaos chodex recently, it's come to my attention that while there are plenty of ways to get high powered, low AP weapons into our lists, but very little ways given to deal with the large, 30 member strong hordes fielded by Orks and Tyranids.
So what, except the lash preferably, do you field in your lists in order to prevent these sort of units from overunning your lines?
Or do you have a special tactic which overcomes the problems of not having enough bullets to destroy the 150 bodies some armies can bring to the table?
I think you are discluding the humble bolter. We don't have many special weapons for dealing with those kinds of armies, cause our basic weapons do it fine.
Why do you not wish to use lash? WHY does EVERYONE say 'Ooo, its too cheesy?' it doesn't do much itself. It may help in this list to keep the models a turn back from Close Combat, but otherwise it wouldn't really help anyway (As they will likely be fairly tightly packed already).
Last edited by Riptor; December 21st, 2008 at 00:20.
Rork: In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only friendship.
Fenrir: and magic.
Kaiser-: My Little Chaos Marine, Friendship is Heresy?
for dealing with their charge? Plague marines. T5, blights, FnP, what's not to love? for killing lots quickly? flamers. for the best way to deliver said flamers? outflanking chosen, 5 of.
5 templates coming in from the sides means anything within about 12" of a board edge is a prime target. and with hordes, that's quite likely. also, at AP5, and no cover, most hordes aint getting their saves either
also, if you are running a wall of PM's to take the charges, consider small units of zerks to counter-charge, bring the combat into your favour, and kill with sweeping advances/no retreat wounds. small units means you can do this with multiple enemy squads, and you dont waste any models with pure overkill unless you need it
also, havocs with 4 ML's, defilers, and nurgle's rot all work well.
Last edited by zubus; December 21st, 2008 at 00:14.
Apologies for threadjacking. The main reason I don't take lash is because I HATE playing against it. I have found it to remove the fun from games. (at least in casual play; In a tournament anything goes).Why do you not wish to use lash? WHY does EVERYONE say 'Ooo, its too cheesy?'
That said, Yes the humble bolter is great for hordes. Just stand and shoot. The sonic blaster is even better at stand and shoot. 3 shot bolter anyone?
I run two 2-man units of oblits in my regular list. If you manage to deepstrike them next to a big mob, twin-linked flamers is nothing to laugh at.
"Stainless Steel whippy sticks of death"
Judicious use of Rhinos can blunt a charge--just make sure moves at least 7" in the turn before the charge and it'll probably survive. Then unload your troops for some delightful payback. Also, bring lots of troops. We cannot win at the numbers game but our regular CSMs can pump out a lot of medium-strength attacks in both ranged combat and hand-to-hand. If you can get the charge with a "critical mass" of Marines then you can win through attrition. Also, bringing some templates will encourage him to spead his models out and give your men a little breathing room at the beginning of combat--30 Orks takes up a lot of space when positioned to minimize template damage. Conversely, don't expect a glorious, 5-template rush to be effective. He'll make avoiding that a high priority, so it'll be good deterrence but not so good actual performance.
All of our specialist troops except Thousand Sons excel in their own way and Khornate anything is fun against hordes. Try a full squad of Khornate Possessed if you have the models to proxy one. It works well for me.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
As mentioned above you should pour some bolter fire into hordes as they approach and then rapid fire them as they get close enough. I often field 10 man squads in rhinos. Moving one up, disembark and then rapid fire. That works well.
Most horde stuff struggle versus plague marines and berzerkers, so these would work well for you. But even regular marines should be able to hold their own against even a larger number of weaker troops.
If the radiance of a thousand suns
Were to burst at once into the sky,
That would be like the splendor of the Mighty One...
I am become Death,
The shatterer of Worlds.
What about a rhino with combi-flamer on the hull, with plague marines inside with 2 flamers- you can shoot two flamers out the hatches, and one from the top. Goodbye hoards. Or better I suppose, unload the PM, and then use 3 flamers and all bolters at rapid fire.
Or defilers are awesome- battle cannon them to death, and then use a heavy flamer when they get up close. Best thing about it is, get it in combat, most horde troops won't be able to touch it- you can use it to tie up large squads while dealing with the rest.
I personally play orks, usually with 3 30 man units and a couple of other nasty things, and I find the best thing that works against me are flamers, esp- heavy flamers, and just pure bolter fire. With BS4, your not really missing much, and without cover, orks and nids are usually screwed with AP5 shots.
SM: W/D/L 12/7/4 CSM: W/D/L 14/0/1
Guard: W/D/L 10/2/3 Orks: W/D/L 5/0/1
Nurlge Daemons W/D/L 4/1/0
One thing I've found is that hordes dont have strong weapons so low AV vehicles are useful. Rhino are strong enough to not get blown up by basic weapons and Havocs, Zerkers, termies and raptors can break of large concentrations of troops and heavy weapons that can thretan the rhinos. The rhinos can be a screen while infantry build up to attack. The rhinos then tank shock, break the infantry, and then the infantry assault the fleeing troopers.
You can deal with horde armies simply with either the humble bolter or heavy bolters work nicely. Missiles are good too incase your enemy forgets to spread his units out more than he could have, can result in a lot of losses if hes not careful, plus they can take out tanks.