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Hello folks.. first post here
I've been playing my daemons for a few months now and I am having real issues with daemonic assult. Nothing I try seems to work. I typically play a 2000pt army and start with bloodletters x2 (with skulltaker), plaguebearers and a soulgrinder for phase 1. I follow that with seekers, horrors and flamers and a KoS.
Now, I have tried being ubar agressive and deepstriking in my usual enemies (Eldar) face or going for cover and then attempting the charge. Many different combinations, but I have not been able to ever use the bloodletters to do the job they were designed to. Usually I end up with >40% casualties in either bloodletter unit and a varying amount of damage on the plaguebearers. I never feel that they ever do the job they were supposed to. I'm missing something in terms of tactics! The bloodletters do get into combat, but by then they are largely depleated and so never get the density of attacks in to really make an impact on the unit they are charging.
My usual enemy uses a lot of aspect warriors, scorpions/harlequins, usually with at least 2 vehicles and a prism cannon so they are all quite nasty.. And to make matters worse he's a great fan of web spiders which always cause total destuction to units out of cover. They are usually the downfall of any of my charging CC units..
I suppose that I should be adding horrors to phase 1 and shooting a lot to start. However, I started out that way and they didn't seem to be hugely effective and then get destroyed by blast markers. That's why I hold them back to 'finish up' targets.
So, obviously I am doing something wrong as reading the posts on this forum suggest the bloodletters should be doing what I think they should be.. i.e tearing it up in CC..
Any suggestions would be very helpful..
Thanks in advance
Deepstrike off to one side rather than right in front of all his army. The enemy firing phase right after your first half arrives is critical as you are at your most vulnerable.
Get some more shooty units. Against aspect warriors Horros of Tzeentch are fantastic. They can mow down large numbers of dire avengers on the turn you arrive. Cheap daemon princes with MoN/MoT and gaze can help too along with chariots of Tz with bolt, legion and sorcery.
The idea is to deepstrike facing about half his army and use your initial wave to shoot like mad and thin out this part of the enemy further so you don't get hit too hard before your second turn begins. If there is a bit of intervening terrain you can use so much the better. You can then bring in reserves near icons or risk further away deepstrike and grab objectives. Pavine can be very useful in getting combat units into assault on turn 2 in effect fleeting the enemy towards you.
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Make sure you run after dropping in, use that extra movement to spread out, go for cover, and generally help avoid getting shot.
Your first wave shouldn't have so much slow stuff. Drop in the hard to kill units (PBs w/ icons, any and all MCs) and shooters (Grinders, DPs, etc). This way you can start whittling his army down, expect to survive, and set up good charges for later. You assault units will have a much easier time with icons on the board and friendly units waiting to give them a hand.
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Agree with the other two posters - the only thing I'll add here is that you should drop the Bloodletters to the second half in favor of Horrors. I know, that'll get them into combat even slower, but Horrors are generally more survivable with thier 4+ save and can start dishing out the hurt the second they drop.
It does a lot to an opponent's psyche to know that they have an immediate threat rather than just a potential one - your opponent will actively target the Horrors more often than not, allowing you more time to get the Bloodletters on the field and into combat safely.
Your opponent isn't fielding anything you can't beat, but Daemons are a very finesse army. First thing to start with is the enemies aspect warriors. Dire avengers are probably the worse you have to fear. They are fast and put out better fire than your Horrors. For them, as well as the Warp Spiders, use your seekers. With a 24" charge, you can DS them out of range and charge next turn. The main goal with said seekers should be tie up the enemy, not necessarily kill them. Use the horrors to take out things that can't shoot back at them. Harlequins and Striking scorpions are good targets. However, the primary target for the horrors should be the dire avengers and guardians. You need to wipe out your enemies scoring units, and Eldar scoring units are rather frail compared to most.
The SG and KoS are there to take out vehicles and whatever else your Daemons can't kill. Use the PBs to sit on objectives and deny your opponent theirs.
Lastly, drop the flamers and BLs. Flamers should take care of anything you got whittled down from the initial round of DSing, and the BLs are there for clean up. Against Eldar, BLs are really overkill. Another option is to use the BLs are a fire magnet while you use your other units to pick the enemy apart.
In general, remember that Eldar unravel very fast and do not do well if their units are mismatched. Dire Avengers die fast in HtH. Striking Scorpions can't shoot, etc. Focus on taking out his scoring units first, and you've removed the conerstone of your opponents army. If he's as aspect heavy as you say he is, it won't be hard. At worst you'll tie, but now your enemy has an uphill battle.
I'd post your army in the army list section as well for additional feedback.
I'm new to Daemons so take my advise with a grain of salt.
I've had success dropping Demonettes, Flamers and Plaguebearers first turn and leaving heavy hitters like bloodletters, Soulgrinders and MCs for later. I try to drop my flamers as close to the enemy and flame them to death. My plaguebearers drop en mass in one location with icons and my demonettes nice and safe far away from everything (with icon).
My flamers are targets for my opponents as they usually grab 5-15 kills between them on teh first turn and then my icons are safe to bring in heavy hitters. Either with Plague bearers for a target saturation or demonettes who i manouver around with the icon to get the deepstriking daemons where i need them.
So if you can apply something similar to your list maybe you can enjoy some of my successes. Keeping Bloodletters in second half and deploying Horrors, Flamers, Plaugebearers in 1st half, with whatever else is needed to balance out (seekers) keep those fast seekers way away from opponent so they are safe and get charges on the second or third turn.
With the soulgrinder I've had it disappear too many times to a bad deepstrike scatter so now I always get it down with an Icon. So now it must be in second half.
But yeah grain of salt, or mound of salt as i'm new to daemons.
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I switched to big units of 20 Bloodletters after my 4 units of 10 kept getting wiped out, and it's working well, at least against my most common opponents, SM's and CSM's. I'm running more for my own fluff than for tournie's though.
I drop to one side of the board, and drop 4 Bloodcrushers and a DP closest to the enemy - they're only there to provide a threat / get shot / charged / protect the bloodletter unit.
Behind them drop 20 bloodletters with Icon, and alongside them other units (normally something with a long charge range - seekers or hounds provide a credible threat).
The 20 bloodletters are there to guide in later waves through the Icon, while advancing through cover etc.
The 2nd wave contains another unit of 20 bloodletters, again with Icon.
Even if you lose 40%, that's still 12 bloodletters, enough to cause real damage.
Big note though : I'm working more on the plan of killing everything on the table when there are multiple objectives rather than holding objectives. I might drop something to get 5 horrors simply to hold at least 1 objective in future.
Plan B is not automatically twice as much explosive as plan A