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I just recently got back into Warhammer 40K.... it looks like I got a crapload of bad news.
One look at the new Chaos Codex.... wow. Someone purposely did this to me.
My Obliterators are now weaker than before(-1 Toughness and -1 Str.). I can't have them as Elites choices.
To add insult to injury, my Defilers are weakened as well.... Their BS, S, WS are lowered...
It's a pretty sick joke what GW has done to my Obliterator army.
So what am I gonna do with 4 Defilers and 9 Obliterators?!?!! I WILL play with the old stats... this is ridiculous what was done to me.
Its not THAT big of a deal. It kinda sucks that you had 4 defilers and 9 obliterators, but lets be honest, min/maxing like that is what made people cry cheese at old Iron Warriors armies anyway.
Defilers have lower S, but they also have DCCWs, so it doubles their strength, maxing it at 10 ANYWAY, just like they had. The lower BS on them sucks, but then they have battle cannons, which don't use BS (Well, they do, but not as much as other weapons do). And lower WS? Are you sure? I was certain they were the same last codex.
Obliterators? With their powerfists they are still S8, which in most cases is as good as S10, and the toughness is unfortunate, but we can deal with it. Plus they have plasma cannons now, and multi meltas. Totally worth the tradeoff in my opinion.
If you want to play the old rules then go ahead, if you want advice adapting, then read our lists here. all you seem to have done is wanted to post a 'OMG I HATE GW FOR WHAT THEY DID TO MY ARMY!' thread. And I, for one, don't want to put up with moaning, we got enough of it when we first got the codex.
I'm sorry if I seem a little harsh, but we have SO MANY of these threads pop up, even now. Try looking at the good points, eh? Daemon Princes are not 0-1 anymore, terminators are actually effective, Raptors are no longer stupidly overcosted, for the points chaos marines are probably the BEST troops in the game (Well, best balanced, they can keep up with shooty OR CC heavy armies).
Rork: In the dark future of the 41st millennium there is only friendship.
Fenrir: and magic.
Kaiser-: My Little Chaos Marine, Friendship is Heresy?
Sorry but I can find no pitty for you, it's list like that with 9 obliterators and 4 ordnance that gave IW the bad name, you caused it on yourself.
GW did went overboard on balancing things but it's lists like that that caused it, you ever thought that such a cheeselist would go unnoticed when the new codex came.
The obliterators strenght was reveised in the 3rd writhing of the codex, defiler are still as strong in cc as before, read their entry properly.
If you want to play with the old stats don't be surprised when people say no as you only seem to like to min max with that list.
Also if you are planning on playing with it anyway than why the hell even go on here and whine about it.
I do echo both Riptor and Dreachons posts. I myself am an Iron Warrior player (It is a well kept secret), I used to use the 9 oblit army in tournements too, but I didnt max out on the HS slots. When the new codex was released many players were outraged and left or moaned on these forums, I myself, was slightly annoyed that there were no cult lists and legion rules. But, change is enevitable, you either accept it, or fall by the wayside.
Now the new rules arrived I beleive there are many brilliant builds available to the chaos player who uses his fluff to create what they want.
I use Plague marine rules to represent my 'Iron Kin', Veteran Iron Warriors who have gone slightly more insane than the rest of there brothers, they beleive that the warping influence of chaos will mutate them all. So, to combat this, they ritually amputate themselves and eachother before a battle, replacing the lost pieces with bionics.
You can now field your siege berzerkers too.
Chaos marines are now super hard, packing 3 weapons each and costing little more. Transports are cheap too which adds valuable manuverabillity to the force.
Terminators are no worth the points, coupled with icons, they make a real offensive weapon. Powerfists and hazard stripes. All of these options are VERY Iron Warriory.
Just mixup your lists or play apocalypse games - playing chaos is hell of a lot of fun, even with the current codex. And remember, you want a match to be fun for both parties, so put your self in your opponent's shoes before approving one of your lists.
Hope you find a way to enjoy the game at it's current state..
Be nice to your enemies, it will make them madder!
Not to keep on harping, but the sentiments expressed so far in the responses to this thread are also shared by myself. Back with the new codex came out, we probably had over a dozen similar threads from Iron Warriors players, but I always pointed out that Alpha Legion took far more of a blow than Iron Warriors. After all, Iron Warriors still have feasible options to created semblances of their old builds, whereas Alpha Legion lost the main thrust behind much of what gave them theme. I think you'll find that nearly all of our options in 3rd edition have improved in 4th, especially the defiler, which seems to be a sticking point for you. A possible six attacks on the charge more than compensates for a reduction in W.S. (yes, Riptor, 3rd edition had defilers at 4WS).
Try the new cults if you like. Every one of them is top notch. Terminators as well are now incredible, and you'll find players using them with far more regularity than anything we could have imagined in 3rd edition. Our special characters are solid choices. Our princes still pack a horrendous punch and in some cases, such as the Slaaneshi Lash variant, you'll find a greatly enhanced prince.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I agree with rabbit. There is still alot of good things with new choas.
I'm sorry your Obliterraters and defilers aren't what they used to be.
Do you want a hug to make things all better?
Thanks for the comments. No I wasn't just "whining" about it, I thought it was unfair as it took me roughly 2+ years saving my money and taking the time to customize and buying special parts for my entire Iron Warriors the way it was only to find out later it was invalid.... well... noone DID say that Iron Warriors can't exist... and that we can't have 4 heavy choices.
You guys are right about the battle cannon. Perhaps the sucky part was is that my Oblitz got weakened and that I can't field them as Elites. I'm not a much of a close combat type with Defilers anyways..
One last thing, I model MORE than playing them. It totally sucks that of the 5 years, I have only had the honor of playing 2-3 games. I guess that will be the last time for me.
I also am an ex IW player and have just parked up my basalisk to permanent display and gone out and bought new toys to rebuild the army. It still has the same colour scheme ( Still love those black and yellow industrial stripes ) but now has bikers and raptors and a big unit of bezerkers. You might try selling a couple of your defilers to other Chaos players and trying some new tactics. Fast attack units are a lot of fun to play.
"Sorry but I can find no pitty for you, it's list like that with 9 obliterators and 4 ordnance that gave IW the bad name, you caused it on yourself."
I did? I only battled with it once when I was playing a game with someone and lost. That guy cheated too because he knew he would lose (cause I didn't know ALL the rules not to mention that he wasn't a courteous player).
I rarily participated in battles in public AND never in tournaments because we don't have battles anymore at my local store (poor sales) and tournaments are in larger cities.
And Dreachon says I caused it..... wow. The nerve to insult me like that.