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So, I've been toying with the idea that my Dreanoughts should find their rightful place in my army lists despite what everyone think of their "reliability" and I think I've finally found a way to minimize their flaws.
Actually I used a Dreadnought once in a while (because I love them too much) and my strategy was to put them on a flank so they could not see any of my models just in case they fire frenzy. I've found out during this time that having a blood rage result didn't really bother me and it was actually fun to watch. It made for an excellent fire magnet as they tend to look scary when they charge into the ennemy lines... and in 2-3 turns they are in charge range.
Sometimes, when they are ignored they actually reach something and act as a general pain. Also since they are a lot better in my opponents lines rather than in mine, I just tend to walk it accross the board... he rarely survives, but that's some fire power that haven't been applied to blow up my Defilers so I'm happy.
So short of using only CC Dreadnought I checked in their weapon list and saw the new addition who came with the new codex in a whole different light: the Plasma Cannon. Have you seen how cheap this weapon actually is? It's the same price than a Plasma Gun for a small S7, AP2 template. This weapon is great at killing infantry and heavy armored infantry and the new template rules just rocks... So now, our Dreadnought is AV12, if I stick one beside each other I will have a great fire platform (infantry killers actually) that have really small chances to hurt each other.
Here's the reasoning. I have only 1 in 6 chances to actually trigger fire frenzy, wich is not that bad in itself. Now even if it does happen, if I run 2 Dreads beside one another, with the way the template rules work, if the center is not ON the target the strenght of the weapon is halved... so it's armless... also the sho thave some chances to scatter and I have a lot of chances to actually miss another Dreadnought (since I only need to scatter 2" away to make a S4 hit) and if I actually do I have a lot of chances to do nothing with a Str7 weapon.
A bad thing that could happend tho would be an early death for one of them and a bad roll the following turn. That's why I will run them along with my Rhinos in the first turns and when my troop transport will have delivered their troops I will send one of them back just to prevent a fire frenzy result in my own troops.
I could also position them beside one Predator for the about the same result since the Plasma Cannon have a 36" fire range... Also can you imagine a fire frenzy IN my opponents troops? That would be glorious!!!
Cost of 2 Plasma Cannon Dreadnoughts = 210 pts.
Add a cheap Heavy Flamer in replacement of a TL Bolter and you have a great infantry killer (in the assault phase).
It's quite cheap for a fire platform that can take on anything in close combat. Also they are the only unit that can have a Plasma Cannon and they use an Elite choice in our organisation chart, why not use them to add some fire power to the army! I know I will in a very near future...
Last edited by Thyr; January 27th, 2009 at 20:31. Reason: Grammar corrections
Really like the idea. but just a quick question.
Where did you find those info about the dread for the new codex?
I ran a list with 2 dreadnaughts and a land raider in a few games I played. The dreads had Missile Launcher and CC weapon.
The look on my opponents face when I deploy all 3 in base to base contact to act as my spearhead. Khorne Berserkers in the land raider to mop up the opposition. Behind the first wave I had 2 rhinos filled up of CSM.
The dreadnaughts didn't get a lot of attention because the land raider was there, also all shots of fire frenzy went in the land raider as frag missiles so couldn't do a thing. I made the dreadnaughts run in the shooting phase to keep up with the land raider.
Getting a dreadnaught in close combat against a unit usually makes the combat locked without anything happening more than a death here an there, but if the second one comes in at the same time or close they usually win the combat without being locked in combat to long.
A lone dreadnaught is ok but two who tag team is really good for there points worth.
"Iron Within, Iron Without"
I think your idea has merit. I think the only time it might be tougher to pull off is with quarter deployment zones where everything tends to be closer together.
I still think it's a shame that you have to go to that extent to make them feasible.
And why the quotes around reliable? They really do have a 1/3 chance to do something you may not want them to. How is that NOT unreliable?
"Enlighten the dupes and there will be no more rogues."
Yeh good tactic with the dreadnoughts, although personally i used them before simply for the fact that they are one of only a few units in the new codex who fit with the theme of chaos, EG oops something went wrong I WONDER WHY, (points towards his chaos god with hatred in his eyes). I prefer a chaos force that acts like a chaos force, none of that orderly rubbish thats for those pansies and there corpse God, for me its all about the insanity with chaos and i try to bring that into my games as much as possible.
Warning this user is totally insane...
I agree with the unholy heretic - there should be a touch of insanity in our generals which makes them laugh manically when things go awry.
In my larger lists (1,5K+) my elite choices are either twin CC dreadnaughts + termie or twin termies + CC dreadnaught. I have stopped running the dreads up with the tanks, prefering the flanks, but the strategy of running them up with a landraider is awesome.
My dreads rarely get shot at though, people try to take out the obliterators or other stuff before focusing on them.
Why don't I put guns on my dreads? Because I have oblits to do that job. Dreads are good both as bait, drawing fire from other stuff, and complete disregard, where the opponent realises how deep in poop they are only when the dreads charge.
Be nice to your enemies, it will make them madder!
We'll as far as the instability factor goes, really, the end goal of a dreadnought is close combat, assuming it has it's dready arm, so even when you roll Blood Rage on the first turn (thus fleet), you're still advancing toward the final goal. Also, I should point out that in c.c., our dreads become exceptionally nasty, since it has a 1/3 chance of doubling its base attacks. With a good general at the helm, a pair of dreads should be a very threatening element of an army.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
dreads are great if you use em right, but can also kill more of your stuff than the opponent's if you don't which is why im really starting to fall in love with them. generally i use em in pairs with DCCW/ML, but a PC instead of the ML could work just as well. more killy, but with that enhanced risk of using it, i like it!
'since it has a 1/3 chance of doubling its base attacks.'
erm, where did you get that from? you might be thinking of the last ed codex, which i havent read, but with the current one the only way to get blood rage is with a 6, and it doesnt double your base attacks. either that, or i missed something somewhere. probably the latter tho
Ew...you know you're right, zubus. I was thinking of 4th edition. Scratch that last post of mine.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I love the idea of running a Dreadnought beside a Land Raider and I tought about it but it's pricey combo.
I must admit tho that 2 CC dreadnought running with a Land Raider full of Khorne Berserkers sound really nasty... I'll try it for sure.
Dethklaat I found all those info in the new codex, the one that came out in 2007.
I put quotes on reliable because the vast majority of the people on this forum think they are too unreliable and prefer another option (and we have plenty of those). Actually I have 1/6 result that I don't want, I have nothing against fleet on a Dread, especially when it's near my opponent lines.
I wanted to find a way to use them in pair so the unreliable factor won't come in the equation when choosing them. If, for 210 pts, I can have 2 plasma templates on 2 Walkers who will eventually have a chance to tear things apart with their S10 Dread Claws then I will be really happy. If I'm unlucky then they might shoot each other during the game but there is a small chance that they will actually hurt each other... so the crazed factor is not that important anymore.
I also agree with the insanity the Chaos should bring on the table , it's a great way to play the game and the Chaos army in general.