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So I pulled a 180 due to funds and wound up going Daemonzilla for now (I still may go back and build the chariots).
Bloodthirster (Unholy Might)
Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Iron Hide, Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies, Noxious Touch)
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh (Iron Hide, Unholy Might, Aura, Musk, Pavane,)
Soul Grinder (Phlegm)
10 Plague Bearers with Icon
10 Horrors (Changeling)
6 Seekers of Slaanesh
3 Flamers (looks like I forgot these orginally)
Last edited by rufusmcdufus; January 28th, 2009 at 17:25. Reason: Updated List
With this kind of thing, I'd consider Fateweaver over the LoC. (Granted, the LoC is a freaking beast) That said, twin-linking the save of all of your major units is hellishly good. The shooting from Fateweaver's equal to the LoC, he's just got a little weaker statline.
Agreed, Fateweaver would help the list tremendously.
I'd also definitely pick up more PBs, 5 is far too few.
Seekers are meh, Fiends are better.
Hmmm...I usually don't even consider Special characters (my nightbringer has been used once). However, that reroll does look very nice and I do have an extra 5 points lying around.
I agree that fiends are better, they are already scheduled to be the first thing to add to the list. In order to fit them, I would probably drop Breath of Chaos from my Princes to add a pair. I would like 1 or two more but not sure how I would squeeze them in just yet.
My PB squad sizes are small because they are just there to hold an icon...and maybe an objective if their slow ass can get to one. I suppose I can make it a 10 man squad and drop an icon praying that I don't roll a 1 or a 2 on my DA. I plan on front loading my DA to have all 5 big guys anyway so I'd be screwed anyway.
Updated the list!
A second head has officially been added to the Lord of Change. Fateweaver is on the list.
I had my first game with the Daemons last night, and made a ton of mistakes (mainly not painting my soul grinder and bunching up my units). Figured I'd give a battle report.
I used a list similar to my original (I haven't gotten fiends yet). I used:
Bloodthirster (might, blessing)
DP Slaanesh (mos, musk, gaze, breath, pavane, hide, might, aura)
DP Nurgle (mon, cloud, touch, hide, breath)
10 horrors (changeling)
5 Plaguebearers (icon)
5 Plaguebearers (icon)
The game was a three way free for all on an 8x4 with DZs in two corners on the lefthand side of the board and the third in middle of the board on opppsite side. I rolled to choose sides and took a corner just so they would be on top of each other. My opponents were Tau (seeker heavy) and Eldar (lots of warlock bikes).
Some seriously odd events unfolded.
I wound up going second. Split my forces as 4 big guys, plaguebearers and horrors vs the troops, flamers, seekers and soul grinder (wanted the grinder to hold off hitting the field as I feared all the heavy weapons...namely railguns).
I failed my Daemonic assault and positioned myself to as far out of sight of the tau as possible and in sight to deal with the main warlock bike squad. My flamers managed to take a few out, and my phlegm drifted onto some eldar troops that took serious damage.
I was kind of bunched up around the icon.
Tau's turn...broadsides move to obtain LoS to the Soulgrinder. They shoot and wiff...wait twin linked. Double 6's...yikes. Both penetrate. Vehicle damage table...double 6's...crap! Explosion distance? 6 inches. This took out several more of my guys and once again the chaos gods laugh at me and the universal "the unpainted model always dies first" rule kicked in. Seekers apparently looked scary and both opponents devoted a lot of firepower to taking them out before they ever got to move.
Bloodthirster and Horrors enter play. Slightly annoyed and hungry for blood I told the Eldar that if the bikes moved away the daemons would not pursue as they were out for vengeance on the broadsides (currently being shielded by a wall of....stealthsuits?) I am not sure throwing stealthsuits inbetween my bloodletters and his broadsides is exactly intimidating. The remaining 7 bloodletters took out all 6 suits before they could swing back. Combined fire from the horrors and flamers took out 1 broadside and wounded the second.
Bloodthirster takes a ton of fire...only 1 wound goes through. Some firewarriors are falling back thanks to eldar. The battlefield is just utter chaos.
My turn again. Daemon Princes and Plaguebearers arrive. Nurgle units go over by eldars dark reapers and gun emplacements scoring a solid breath of chaos hit. Slaanesh prince drops in to go after the Warlocks. Bloodthirster about 2 inches outside of range to assault a Hammerhead, is stuck fighting firewarriors. He devours the squad. Bloodletters finish off the broadside.
Tau's firewarriors fail to route but decide to send some cover fire into the bloodthirster. 3 wounds go through. Apparently firewarriors are SCARED of eldarbikes but not of giant red daemons. That said...they never wound up regrouping and eventually still ran away. Bloodletters face a firing squad. I am down to 1 left, sitting in from of 3 crisis suits. Daemon Prince of Nurgle is gunned down by dark reapers and a vyper.
Turn 4...Fateweaver can come! I deep strike him so that he can handle the obnoxious warlock and the Crisis HQ units. Mishap...delayed. NM that idea. More fighting, Slaanesh Prince was lethal. The combo of hit and run followed by a pavane to bunch stuff up and fire off breath before charging in again proved lethal. Tau UNLOADED on the lone bloodthirster with 3 crisis suits, a remora, pirahnas, a devilfish and some gun drones. Overkill? No...the bastard lived, and took a wound off the suits...which routed (but regrouped and shot him dead turn 5). Plaguebearers take out the Dark Reapers (seriously...they did in one turn with just 5!)
Turn 5! Fatweaver goes by an icon and turns a warlock from the second bike squad to a chaos spawn, fries a unit of pathfinders that had been milking a high cover save in some trees and takes out a vibrocannon battery. Not too shabby. My objective held by a lone plague bearer becomes contested. Tau go to grab an objective just in case, but Slaanesh Prince hit and runs to contest (I am in love with musk and so fiends will definitely be added). I roll for game end, with the same results as my daemonic assault. 2. Game ends in a draw with no one holding any uncontested objectives.
My survivors...Fateweaver (3 wounds left), Slaanesh Prince (4 wounds left), the icon holder from each PB Squad. Rough game. Fate was not on my side (literally...333 pts didnt hit the game until last turn!). Tons of fun and I think I am now in favor of MSU as opposed to 10 man troop choices with this list. I think this list should do really well against them in 1 vs 1 games (if I make Daemonic Assault).
Side note are Fiends on big bases or terminator/scarab bases? Is a solo fiend viable as a 30 point harassing unit?
Sounds like Chaos, but I wouldn't take a 3 way ffa as a proper gauge of how good the army is.
Fiends are on 40x40mm square bases in Fantasy, which I believe translates to a Terminator base.
Thanks...because I was thinking about possibly using my seeker models as fiends next couple games and just wanted to make sure they would be about the same size. By removing all seekers and transfixing gaze from the DP I can field 6 fiends (2x3...I want to keep at least 11 units so I have option of the 5 big guys + icon).
If I drop breath/pavane from the DPs I can get a couple extra fiends. I am not sure on this trade off as I was very impressed by the pavane/BoC combo. Actually considering dropping just nurgle's BoC and the thirster's might (does he really need 9s on the charge?) for a squad of 3 screamers as my opponents LOVE their vehicles and a 48 point investment seems worth the attention they would get from my opponents. (plus I love the models).
Fiends are always worth taking, they hit hard, move quickly, and are dirt cheap.
I'd hang on to the breath/pavane dealy as it is very effective, and keep Might in case you run afould of heavier vehicles or need to insta-glib some T4 characters.
Not getting the DA is always rough, especially because it doesn't make sense to distribute the power in your army evenly between the two halves. Given that you've got a 2/3rds chance to get the half you want, you should dump everything into that and the expendable units into the other half.
At least, that's the way I play it.
Reading over your report, it sounds like you we're a bit cautious with the Deepstrikes. Don't be afraid to get aggressive. Despite what happened to Fateweaver, it's kinda hard to actually mishap if you DS at least 8" away from any hazards. (1/3 chance of a hit * 15-25% of the correct direction * average roll of D26 is 7, so if you're 8" away...basically it works out to 1/24 chance of mishap by statistics.) To that end, whenever you can, DS Fateweaver and the Bloodthirster within range of each other so that they can get the twin-linked saves right from the start. (This is aided by the fact that you can run the Bloodthirster towards FW first turn instead of using that kinda worthless whip he's got.)
What happened to the SG was unfortuante - that may happen a lot to Tau, but he's really a powerhouse who'll survive against most armies. Don't keep him near the rest of your army; he doesn't need them backing him up, and if he does explode...well, you saw it happen. Consider a Soulgrinder to be a threat that can hold down one part of the table by itself.
That said, I'ma agree with ==Me== here; a 3-way FFA isn't the best judge of an army.