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  1. #1
    Member Nerdynick's Avatar
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    A varied approach or 1k sons?

    Welcome to Nerdynick's thread of doom. Your soul will be recycled to feed the homeless.

    I am a very indecisive person. After much consideration and opinion gathering, I have decided on Chaos. I am, however, undecided on how to play chaos. I have two armies I would like to play, but, obviously funds are not available for such an action. I cannot decide whether or not to play the Sons Undivided, a custom chapter based on chaos undivided and balancing the powers of chaos (taking near equal amounts of god specific units or having several god specific lists) or the Thousand Sons. To assist the forumites in helping me decide which would be best, I will provide as much information as I can about my playstyle and enemies. If details prove insufficient, either ask me for more information, or provide information based on your own personal experience.

    Playstyle: I am really flexible on playstyle. I can do melee or ranged, but I am not fond of hit and run tactics, not to say I won't use rhinos or the such to get around faster. I usually try to play whatever plays to the strengths of my army and the weaknesses of my enemy.

    Enemies: I tend to avoid games at my LGS in favor of friendly games with a select group. Not only does this help me to better tailor my lists to specific enemies, it allows me to introduce occasional house rules (which we have few of because we are all pretty new to 40k, though a few of us have been playing warmachine for a couple of years). Thus far, all, I repeat all, of my enemies have 3+ saves on average. We have 1 Salamanders player who runs Vulkan Heestaan (which makes his meltas and flamers twin linked and his thunder hammers master crafted) and terminator heavy lists. We have 1 dark angels player who I am not sure of his playstyle, though he did mention maybe taking a unit of grey knight allies. We have one custom chapter SM player, whose playstyle is also unknown to me. We have a Black Legion player, who seems serious enough about playing, but is soon to start playing WoW, which will severly lessen his almost neglible model output already. We have one person who might play a Zerker heavy army, but he is also very short on funds, and will not likely have a very great model output. And the final player is a Necron/Grey Knight player. He is the one that worries me the most, necrons I forsee few problems beyond getting into melee with them, but grey knights frankly scare me. I don't have their 5th ed codex, but the 4th ed one shows them to be highly effective at doing their job, whichis killing Chaos (and I don't like being killed). The shrouding prevents shooting them from a distance, aegis buffers them quite a bit from psykers (which is the biggest thing stopping me from playing 1k sons), Strength 6 weapons will outdo basic chaos forces, and there are probably other rules I'm not aware of that poses serious threats to me. In fact, the only advantage I can find against them insofar is numbers and my greater experience.

    Note: I don't want an army list that trumps any list thrown at as this is what drove me away from warmachine, I had a leader that could singlehandedly slaughter almost any other unit in the game, and killing the opponents leader usually wins the game.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Nhyx's Avatar
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    I'd go with the undivided army.
    A strictly 1ksons army would be a bigtime point nightmare, since you need a sorc in every troops squad.
    Byfar the Sons are the best choise for popping the MEQs (duh, I know), and they're decent at holding objectives (5+ invuln save), but I've very rarely fielded them more effectively than a squad of plague marines.
    You have to balance the marine popping power with the points for a squad.
    I perfer to stick to vanilla CSM with 2 meltas over the Sons.
    Maybe noise marines instead of the sons? So they're not limited by movements, moving your troops around and only shooting 12inches starts to suck. The A2/H3 sonic blasters are awesome, and I've found that with the firepower they lay down, they're just as effective at killing the MEQs as the inferno bolts, and they don't have to get as close.

    Guess what I'm trying to get at, but digressing alot, is that undivided is the best option now that they took away the legion specific rules. You don't lose anything by taking something from another god like you used to with the old codex. So why not exploit that to your advantage and show the loyalist scum that the chaos gods CAN play nice together!
    Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
    Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
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  4. #3
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    You will find a purist Thousand Sons army to be very restrictive. They are excellent against Space Marines and Necons but weak against most other armies. Beyond that, I really can't help. Don't worry about Grey Knights--their stats are sky-high but having low numbers is a severe handicap. They also have bad antitank by Space Marine standards.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  5. #4
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhyx View Post
    Byfar the Sons are the best choise for popping the MEQs (duh, I know), and they're decent at holding objectives (5+ invuln save), but I've very rarely fielded them more effectively than a squad of plague marines.
    4+ inv you mean

    Nerdynick, looking at your opponents, Thousand Sons really does seem to rather solid choice, especially if you went heavy on the troops. I'm just thinking of how nasty it would be against zerkers and marines, if you unloaded large sums of rapid-firing inferno bolts into them. Of course, your undivided Sons would also be a good option and provide more all-purpose squads; however, since you're only up against MEQs, you don't need *that* much versatility. Why don't you post a couple lists in this thread of each build you're considering? That would really get the ball rolling.
    Last edited by Rabbit; February 4th, 2009 at 04:59.
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  6. #5
    A legend in my own mind.
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    I wouldnt do all thousand sons. In fact I only run one squad, and they just serve as a retinue for Ahriman. Thios tactic works really well. you cna have ahrmiman use doombolt up to 3 times. Thats the same as having an additional 9 Thousand sons in the unit. I give the asp. sorcerer doombolt. If there are any vehilces in the area, Ahriman can shoot 3 S8 AP1 shots that will be bound to hurt the thing. 1k sons are great for holding an objective. I think plague marines are better, but still. they have some of the best anti infantry weapons. Lay down a hail of AP3 bolter fire. Even Other marines can't stand that.
    If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.

  7. #6
    Aspiring Champion Memnoch's Avatar
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    ---------- Post added at 09:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 ----------

    I did the quick reply but it didnt seem to work

    Anyway I say go with Undivded. Playing an all Thousand Sons army while fun will become very easy to counter if you are playing the same opponents regularly but with Undivded you can be a lot more flexible in what you take.

    Squads of Thousands Sons are also really expensive.

    *EDIT* Ok the quick reply did work my PC seems to be acting funny today. Ive deleted the quick reply.
    Last edited by Memnoch; February 4th, 2009 at 11:01. Reason: Double Post in error
    Currently play: 4000+ of Black Legion

  8. #7
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Before purchasing any models, try a few games with the various units you're considering. While I strongly favor playing Thousand Sons (and it seems I'm the only one), they can get a bit monotonous at times. However, your environment is pretty much a Thousand Sons' player's dream; everything is MEQ. Just saying...

    EDIT: This thread has a glitch and is kind of unstable, so if you post a reply and it does not show, please wait ten minutes before reposting it. Thanks
    Last edited by Rabbit; February 4th, 2009 at 17:32.
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  9. #8
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    I like the thousand sons and just take two units. The rest are usually some unit with Khorny stuff (like IoK raptors or berzerkers) and termies.

    2xtzeench+1xkohorne= sweetness

    If I had all 4 I would think that I am overcomplicating things for myself..
    Be nice to your enemies, it will make them madder!

  10. #9
    Nox Archnomad's Avatar
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    I'm with Rabbit. In that environment, The Sons of Tzeentch are almost a no brainer. I ran a Thousand Sons list to great effect a while ago, and it wasn't beaten. Stopped running it out of boredom. It was something like:

    2 Princes
    Termies (might be 2 units)
    THousand sons in RHinos (i think it was 3 units)
    Obliterators

    Regardless it slaughtered most everything. Sons are awesome, they're resilient, and killy. But one tip I can give. If you get to place objectives, put them out in the open. You get your 4++ anyway, and they get diddly.
    omgitsduane:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archnomad
    Well I picked up my first model when I was 7.

    I misunderstood that... ALOT

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  11. #10
    Member Nerdynick's Avatar
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    I know I'm going to kick myself for this later, but I'm a little braindead at the moment and can't remember what MEQ means, no matter how hard I try. As for the lists, heres a sample of what I was kind of thinking, opinions wanted:

    Sons Undivided List

    1506/1500 pts

    HQ:
    Chaos Lord 165 pts: Terminator Armor, Mark of Khorne, Personal Icon, Combi-Melta, and Daemon weapon. I was also considering replacing the terminator armor with a juggernaut or wings. I am also astonished at the sheer number of attacks this guy gets.

    Chaos Sorcerer 235 pts: Terminator Armor, Mark of Tzeentch, Personal Icon, Familiar, Warptime, Wind of Chaos, Bolt of Change

    Elites:
    Chaos Terminators 325 pts(Karmoon Special): 5 Terminator Champions 3 w/ combi-plasmas and power weapons, 2 w/Reaper Autocannons and Chainfists, Icon of Khorne

    Troops:
    Chaos Space Marines 245 pts: 10 CSM 1 w/ plasma gun, 1w/ rocket launcher, aspiring champion w/ power fist. Icon of Khorne

    Thousand Sons 251 pts: 7 Rubric Marines, 1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ Wind of Chaos

    Khorne Bezerkers 285 pts: 10 Bezerkers 1 Skull Champion w/ power weapon and plasma pistol, two bezerkers w/ plasma pistol
    ___________________________________________________________________________ __________

    Thousand Sons List

    1491/1500

    HQ:
    Chaos Sorcerer 235 pts: Terminator Armor, Mark of Tzeentch, Personal Icon, Familiar, Warptime, Wind of Chaos, Bolt of Change

    Elites:
    Chaos Terminators 330 pts: 5 Terminator Champions 3 w/ Chainfists and Combi-Meltas, 2 w/ Chainfists and Reaper Autocannons. Icon of Tzeentch

    Troops:
    Thousand Sons 277 pts: 9 Rubric Marines 1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ Doombolt

    Thousand Sons 277 pts: 9 Rubric Marines 1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ Doombolt

    Thousand Sons 297 pts: 9 Rubric Marines 1 Aspiring Sorcerer w/ Wind of Chaos

    Heavy Support:

    Obliterator Cult 75pts: 1 Obliterator


    Yes, I know I didn't include Ahriman, but I went for my terminator sorcerer in favor of a more personalized feeling. I plan on picking him up eventually regardless of which army I play.
    Last edited by Nerdynick; February 5th, 2009 at 03:10.

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