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Ok. I have been kicking around QUITE A FEW different army lists lately and am deeply set in my Chaos Undecided mode. What I would like from the community is a list as to what each of the Cult Marines are good at.
My overall theme for my army will be an all encompassing worship of all the gods. What I was thinking was making some models of each cult, painting them in the armies scheme, and then just changing out the Culties for the enemies that they would be best against. One load out for hoard armies, one for shooty lists, etc. etc.
Anyway if you all could tell me what you think each of the four cult marines are good for you could help me immensely. I don't want to just know what they do well, but who they are best used against also. I'm asking for the expertise of those that have been around longer and have a better understanding than myself... so that leaves it pretty wide open ;P
Zerkers are great for an all out blitzkrieg style charge, the best CC MEQs in the game IMO.
Rubrics are great for laying down tons of fire that destroys MEQs (AP3 rounds)
Plagues are best used for holding objectives, their 4(5)T and FNP make them all but impossible to remove from an objective once they're dug in, they're also great for bogging up enemy infantry, for the same reason as stated above.
Noise marines are the firepower experts. Having the 2nd best weapon in the game (next to the tau rifle), the sonic blasters being A2/H3 bolters for a tiny point price, a mobile tank buster (blastmaster, though it's expensive as hell), and the doom siren. Doom siren is great for complimenting a LoS, lash the enemy troops in a template shape, doomsiren them, and laugh when half his squad is gone from that alone. Most people don't give these guys rhinos, and if they do, its mearly used as mobile cover.
All the cult marines have their place, but the vanilla CSM with a MoCG has its place too, they're more versitile than their marked bretheren, mixing and matching weapons to match your opponent better.
Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)
Well let me try a different approach. What armies are best to field each of the Cult units against? 1K Sons are good for MEQ's... so SM and Necron? Noise Marines are great shooty. So do they do well against all or are they weak to horde armies? Do Plagues have a weakness that isn't readily appearant to a reader? Help me understand a more in depth breakdown of the uses for the Cult troops if you could.
Not to change the topic, but I am trying to create a list before I go and buy all the models I want. My problem is I want too much. With the addition of certain rules in the 5th Edition making all of my wants fit in a viable build is all but impossible. It's too hard to trade troop choices for the other choices I want. What is the opinion of the board as far as percentage of points allocated to specific purposes? Should 25% be good towards troops or would I need more? How much Fast Attack is good? How much Heavy? Do I need to use Preds or Oblits, or can i suffice with Defiler and Dread combo (which I would prefer)? How good are Termies and should they be prioritized in a list? Any advice on how to build a healthy list would be appreciated.
I know this is a lot but any solid advice is appreciated. I am new and Chaos Undecided is an understatement at this point.
iight, lemme do my best
i play plagues:
"Do Plagues have a weakness that isn't readily appearant to a reader?"
Uhh, in short in my opinion, no. They're toughness + feel no pain lets them take a lot of hits. They can hold their own against basic Tyranid troops, especially gaunts without any help.
"Should 25% be good towards troops or would I need more?"
Just make sure you have more troops then anything else. You NEED them for any game. They're the safest route for any game, because of their versatility and the fact that they can hold objectives
"How much Fast Attack is good?"
Generally, Fast Attack is really not that good unless you have a purpose for them. Like tank-hunting or daemon bombs which are used less frequently anyway.
"How good are Termies and should they be prioritized in a list?"
They are exceptional. Without a doubt the best Elite choice you can have because of the Dread's Crazed Rule Fire Frenzy. The Reaper Autocannon is a waste of points. Generally, people here suggest what i'm about to suggest: the Karmoon special:
-1x Heavy Flamer + Power Fist
"Do I need to use Preds or Oblits, or can i suffice with Defiler and Dread combo (which I would prefer)?"
You dont NEED to use anything. But Preds are always amazing because their one of the best "armor" choices to have. Defilers are ... kinda lackluster in that department. But i dont use the defiler and dread combo so i cant address this that well.
Noise Marines are good vs hordes with thier high volume of fire, and excellent move-and-shoot ability. Plus, thier weapons generally make a mess of the armor granted to most things in horde armies.
25% troops can be enough. That's generally 2 well equipped squads. What you have to bear in mind is that you'll need to tailor your tactics around this. More troops is easier because losing them doesn't hurt you as much, plus we have awesome troop choices. But it is a valid tactic to try to hold 1 or 2 objective tops and just pile in to contest everything else to win a game. Personally though, I typically go more like 35%+ troops.
Defiler / Dread can work fine. Especially if you're planning on getting them all into assault and just lobbing shots at things on the way in. You get more of a swiss-army-knife of guns with the oblits, but you can get 2 dreads for the same price tag as 3 oblits, so you're firepower isn't suffering too much, and your armor saturation would be very strong. Might hurt you on the KP total though. This is a root for the "Chaos Zilla" idea though. 2 Princes, 3 dreads, 3 defilers, maybe a greater daemon while you're at it.
Termies... well... I've yet to be terribly impressed with them, but I haven't given them a whole lot of chances. The Karmoon Special is the most reccommended load out for a good reason. It's a suicide squad who's only purpose in life is to royally muck up the enemy's battle plan. And they can do it well. I'd say give that a try, even if just with some proxies. I've faced off against termie squads used foot slogging or riding a land raider and they never did well for thier cost at all. So aside from the deepstriking mucking-up role, eh, they're mediocre.
When you build your list, look at it and try to ask yourself how you would deal with different opponents with your army. what happens if you face nidzilla, do you have enough high strength attacks? Ork horde, do you have the volume of fire to make a difference? Mech Eldar, do you have the ability to deal with the mobile tanks and thier probable farseer of frustration? Then, however you figure to handle it, see if you can find a back-up plan in case your go-to unit has already been toasted. A few itterations of tweaks from that and you should have a solid all-comers list to hit the table top with.
Wargamer Haven, my little cyberspace blogspot.
Fearless objective holders. Seriously, what more do you need to hear?
Personally, I run about 50% troops, for every 500 points the game size rises, I add another troop squad. I guess it's a bit heavy, but still, it's nice to not have to worry a whole lot about which unit goes moves where (at least for scoring purposes). Anyone else run that many?
"If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."
Use with cover/transports, rush in and hope they don't whiff their attacks or get charged.
I personally don't have much luck with them... at all.. ever...
Oh and, a bit wimpy on the firepower side. (as much as a csm ever can be that is)
The unit for you if you like to park stuff on objectives and wait until the turns run out.
Meq smackers, expensive and must include a psycher in each unit.
Potentially very nasty, their performance is a bit dependent on what the opponent brings.
Noise marines: Plan B: Kill it with ROCK
Very shooty, Though they are still chaos marines, so will still rip spines if they must.
The cost of blastmasters sting a bit.
Doom sirens are just yummy.