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  1. #1
    The Allmighty Chaos Boots Process's Avatar
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    Tired of 5:th ed codex creep.

    So our dear 4:th ed codex was a bit of a creep with the lash princes too bad it's the only viable HQ for us in any non 100% fluffdriven enviroment so I'm converting my chaos army to run with the vanilla dex to rule them all: 5:th ed SM.

    I will take off some arms from my thousand sons and arm them as tac squads, I will get some nice FW 1k sons dredds.
    Now the big question is what should I do about my love for oblitz?

    Should I:
    A replace them with hellfire dredds.
    B replace them with autolas preds
    C forget about HS alltogether and load up on more tac squads ( I have 63 1k sons to play with so I can make 6 tac squads with that no problem)

    What is Aurora Prime?
    "behold, I am the flamer, the searing one, the combustion of all spontanious flash fires, I am process" BIG RED BUTTON!

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  3. #2
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    O____o

    I say option D...

    (don't use SM!)

    And holy moly, I don't think I have seen 63 thousand sons in total in my LIFE! (inc mine I've seen maybe 45..)
    Be nice to your enemies, it will make them madder!

  4. #3
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    I'd go with option A, although I would also recommend using DCCWs as well. They're the closest analog to the Obliterator and, while more expensive, are also quite versatile...a better choice to support a troop-heavy list than the static Predator.

    I know what you mean about Codex Creep. Another Chaos guy wants to convert his Night Lords into a Blood Angel list, and I'm looking into following his lead. You're in good company, sad to say.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  5. #4
    Senior Member seismic's Avatar
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    You should consider one of the land raider pattern, unless you have a personal taste related objection to land raiders. Either the standard las canon or the redeemer would be my personal pick, though i don't have any heavies in my list. Nevertheless having a moving las canon platform that can shoot 2 different target (spirit of the machine rules ! ) or the possibility of a 6/ap3 template is pretty tempting.

    On a related note i've also turned ... errr loyalist. I've modified my list considerably , but am satisfied with the results. Since i can't fully get rid of the taint , i've also change the narrative of my chapter to satisfy my preference for things of a sinister nature... It also helps explain all the horns , spikes and whatnot on my models.
    Last edited by seismic; April 17th, 2009 at 03:59.
    "The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
    -Anaxagoras of Clazomenae

  6. #5
    Slaaneshi Battle Barge CO
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    Do you think Chaos is getting the short end of the stick vis a vis Power Creep? Well... we are, compared to SMs.. however, for a bit of perspective, you should stop be the Dark Eldar forum and read the thread on Power Creep there.
    "Is Archon Braigh-Dee going to have to choke a Wych?

    Courtesy of Wicky: D.C.S.S.E.P.C.I.C.B.

  7. #6
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    There are definately armies more deserving than us for a codice update. Dark Eldar are on the top of the list. Space Wolves (although theres is incoming) is another. I could even make a case for the Inquisition branches, ala Ordo Hereticus, Ordo Malleus, and even a new codex for the Ordo Xenos (Would give a precious body part for that one). However I still feel that the Chaos Codex is a little light. We lost all of our named legions after the last codex. And we have lost a lot of strength in the codex since the release of the 5th Edition. The troop choices change has hurt us greatly imo.

    The one question I have is now, exactly what do the Chaos Space Marines offer that the Loyalist Bretheren can't do better? What is it that makes our armies unique? IG have numbers and mechanization. Orks and 'Nidz have overpowering numbers. Tau are the best at shooting from afar. Necrons are downright impossible to kill easily. Eldar have there specialist that can dominate in there specific fields and their dark kin have there excellence in CC. What do we have now?

    We are very good in CC, yes. We do get "Uber Grit". But if you compare us to our loyalist counterparts (which isn't a stretch to do) we don't get any of the benefits (splitting of units, auto pass of fail of leadership tests, auto regroup and attack after said chosen Ld fail.) and all of the downfalls (high pt. costs, nowhere near the specialization they get with troop gear, no HQ benefits to the entirety of our army, Dreadnought Frenzy, etc).

    There are more deserving armies out there, yes, but with recent updates to other codices and cracks in ours it is hard to stay satisfied with chaos as is. Codex creep is a big issue for most atm.

  8. #7
    The Allmighty Chaos Boots Process's Avatar
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    mmm I'm all for specializing so I want the shooty stuff to shoot and the cc stuff to bash so I think I'll run with hellfire dredds for shooting and ironclads for cc I developed that style of play after playing 1k sons pure in 3:rd and as pure as I can get it in 4:th. Regarding landraiders sure armor has become alot tougher but the only way a landraider can be worthwhile is as a firemagnet as there normally aren't enough high cost AV targets in a troops rich enviroment.
    I want every model that alone costs 70 or more points to be able to have a high burst damage IE being able to sweep reliably in cc, being able to produce a template of some form etc. For tank hunting I like to add tankhunting capability to troops for this simple reason. Most tanks loose vs a large unit of infantry armed with AT guns due to the 1 wound nature of AV (it sticks or it doesn't) Most non dedicated AT infantry lack the range and punch to deal effectivly with a mobile AV unit that can lay down a template at range and most infantry units lack the clout in cc to deal with AV targets in cc. So normally I would be fielding battle cannons and plasmacannons on my AV and lascannons/meltaguns on my infantry.

    I'm mostly doing this not to get a 5:th ed choas dex of Uberness 2000 but to prove the point that any blind bastard with 2 braincells can win a GT with this cheesefest SM dex.

    I Wan't to
    A ban lash
    B remove atsknf functions move and shoot with heavy weapons after regrouping, remove imunity to sweeping advance and let it do what it's supposed to do... allow auto regrouping regardless of unit size without any leadership rolls. that alone is hardcore enough.
    C get those bastards at gw to actually playtest their product.

    I will take this list for friendly play I have another SM list with borrowed minis at 1750pts that I will bring to tournaments which will cause me to be hated for decades. And every opportuniy I get I will say it like it is: I'm not winning these battles the broken dex is...
    Last edited by Process; April 17th, 2009 at 10:12.
    What is Aurora Prime?
    "behold, I am the flamer, the searing one, the combustion of all spontanious flash fires, I am process" BIG RED BUTTON!

  9. #8
    Senior Member seismic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Process View Post

    I'm mostly doing this not to get a 5:th ed choas dex of Uberness 2000 but to prove the point that any blind bastard with 2 braincells can win a GT with this cheesefest SM dex.
    If that's the true purpose of your project , i would doubt it need any proof of merit considering its already a given. Its no secret that Gw favors the smurfs, the number of revision of their codex , the blatant rule favoritism , the copious amount of unit selection/models and so on and so forth. Mind you ,its a lot more balance now than when i first started playing . In other words , you wouldn't be proving anything , only stating the obvious.

    If you're going for a GT list though , i can't really give you advise on your Heavy support selection , i mostly play for fun and by consequence i'm not too keen on min/maxing lists.
    Last edited by seismic; April 17th, 2009 at 21:01.
    "The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
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  10. #9
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    I'll take the chaos codex any day over the 5th ed. SM one. We clobber them in cc, we have the 2 assault weapon option, defilers, dp's, oblits, plague marines, berzerkers, wind of chaos, warp time, lash and on and on.

    The problem most folks have with the latest chaos codex is centered around lack of legion-specific armies, unique demons and retconning some of the fluff- not a nerf issue. I don't think the new marines are more powerful than chaos at all- they have more options, but a killer chaos list will stand up to a killer SM list any day IMO.

  11. #10
    Senior Member seismic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrach View Post
    The problem most folks have with the latest chaos codex is centered around lack of legion-specific armies, unique demons and retconning some of the fluff- not a nerf issue. I don't think the new marines are more powerful than chaos at all- they have more options, but a killer chaos list will stand up to a killer SM list any day IMO.
    Bingo!

    The missing legions/daemons (And wargear section , but it was too tedious to be kept anyway) really hit hard in my opinion. But you shouldn't underestimate the power of the dark side .. errr i mean; You should underestimate the potential of a well rounded option selection.

    For starters you can trim your list in a more effective manner , placing point where you feel more comfortable with : more specific weapons or force organization possibilities (3 patterns of land raider/dreadnoughts/landspeeders, attack bikes and inv sav 3+ terms for the win) . Secondly you can tailor your list to the play style your more acquainted with :for instance i've grown accustom to a "fast attack' centered list , playing night lords and all , with the new codex however its impossible , i would say , to mirror the same mobility/lethality. This leaves you with over seized and specialized units which are big target signs for blast/templates ... or simply ignorable (think thousand sons vs orks )

    I'd say the Chaos marine sweet spot is in the 1500 pts range; You can field 2 daemon prince , 1 generic greater daemon , 1 defiler plus the remainder of points in troop ... and one unstable dreadnought for giggles/nostalgia , that's all you need to have a decent chance against any opponent. Beyond that however (1700 pts and more) you end up with all your force organization charts filled up quickly, and redundant with the same units.

    But that's just me.
    Last edited by seismic; April 20th, 2009 at 04:31.
    "The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
    -Anaxagoras of Clazomenae

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