Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
1-2 Soul Grinders
2-3 Soul Grinders
1-2 Daemon Princes
2-3 Daemon Princes
1 Soul Grinder 2 Daemon Princes
2 Soul Grinders 1 Daemon Prince
While im not a Daemons player (yet) iv been reading up on them alot and I generally see people rather filling their heavy support out with Grinders or DPs though rarely a mix.
What i want to know is what people think of both choices and their preference on what to field
DPs are, in a lot of people's views including mine, not very good. It's not that the stats or abilities are bad, they just cost a lot for what they do. Meanwhile, SGs are probably the best walkers in the game. They also provide anti-armor the Daemons are in dire need of.
The combo that I've heard works well though is to have two SGs and a flying DPoT.
Theirs really nothing that a DP does better then a Grinder
Grinders can kill infantry better with Phlegm, Vomit and DCCW then a DP can
Can kill tanks better with Tongue and DCCWs then a DP
Heck its even more durable then a DP, especially with multiple Grinders (which is why everyone says to take at least 2 Grinders)
All of which Grinders can do for generally cheaper
==Me== and I (weird sentence I know) had a rather large debate about this a while back. However, the long and short of it came to:
*important points in red*
More resilient to anti tank fire (lascannons, missile launchers, not autocannons though) than grinders. Especially with MoTz.
Potentially faster (wings)
Can kill a dreadnought or enemy MCs in combat.
Better in close combat.
Die like fish in a barrel to bolterfire/lasgun fire. This can be compensated somewhat my the marks of nurgle/tzeentch and Iron Hide, but they cost points, and are still nowhere near as resilient as a grinder.
Nowhere near as shooty as grinders can be.
Heavy shooting power.
Can rip apart vehicles in close combat. Also our only real chance against a monolith.
More resilient to anti infantry fire (you need S7 to hurt the thing) than a prince.
Can die to one lascannon shot.
Ripped apart by any MCs/Dreads.
Big, hard to land it right.
That's about it.
Played a 1700 pt battle against nids this weekend.. had 2 grinders and a DP going. They were the MVP's of the battle even though I lost the harvester guns on both of them.. They were super killy and performed well taking out squad after squad of those bugs. My daemon prince on the other died a cowards death to a broodlord and 3 homogaunts. ..
Still iin the end the SG's annihilated those damn bugs to claim victory.
NECRON Army List Builder a Free excel capable list generator for 5th and 6th ed. 11/2011
Necrons - 6000 points, Tau - 6000, Daemons - 5250, Eldar - 4500, Blood Angels - 5000
Some pics form my hobby. http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r...arodragon/40k/
As Archy put up, DPs are more resilient to anti-tank weapons thanks to multiple wounds and an invulnerable save, but are easier to down with medium S, multi-shot weaponry (unless they have Iron Hide, MoN, or MoT). Grinders are impossible to kill with lower S weapons, but meltaguns will mess them up.
It really depends on the rest of your army. A Grinder is a generalist beater, while a DP has to be specialized to get the most out of him without wasting too many points.
I would pick DPs over Grinders these days, as the prevalence of melta weapons and anti-tank has increased in 5th edition. All it takes is 1 melta to destroy your Grinders, and as our only vehicles they present a big target. I prefer an army of medium T, multi-wound units in larger numbers to ignore anti-tank weapons and minimize the effect of multi-shot weaponry. That means Fiends, Heralds, and DPs.
I go with 3x SGs. I own both 3xDPs and 3xSGs and my SGs have lasted longer then my DPs though I have not gone with the MOT mine were MoN with IH. The SG can sit back and shoot its Phelgm at 36(big reason I take SG over DPs is the range) and even a multi needs to get within 12 to actually have a chance of hurting him reliably. I face alot of armies with tons of melta and the 3 usually make it to turn 4 sometimes 2 survive maybe immobilized/losing weapons but end up causing more damage then they took. If your opponent has units with no way to deal with armor 13 in cc they are fun to drop and shoot and next turn assault that unit.
I usually drop 3 sgs with 2 KoS and 2 units of 6 fiends in my first wave. The SGs either drop behind some cover or take up some position with best lane of fire.
My upcoming blog in the works:
I agree with ==him==, I've moved towards using DPs over SGs due to the prevalence of heavy and melta weapons.
I still take a SG, as you can drop them at the back of the field and be safe from melta weapons, which are the biggest threat. And they are really good against Orks.
But the main reason I use two princes (one Nurgle, one winged Khorne) is to stop walkers. I've had a lot of trouble in the past against these things and Soul Grinders just don't cut it against walkers.
The Nurgle prince is a great, tough distraction to drop behind enemy lines whilst the damaging infantry units get closer, and the Khorne prince is ideal for smashing dreadnoughts, as well as small to medium infantry units. And both can hurt Land Raiders and smash any other non-Monolith tank.
I've found the DPs great against guard. They are difficult to hit with ordnance without a direct hit and then they get an invulnerable, and lasguns struggle to hurt them. And there is no IG tank that they can't easily smash with one charge.
Plus, I love the fact that DPs are much easier to drop, due to their smaller size, and are just as nasty on one wound as they are on 4.
And seriously, 3 SGs is just unimaganative and a bit obnoxious.
"Ooh, these are good, I'll take three!!11!1!"
It's much more fun to mix it up, for you and you opponent.
I actually like both, it depends on how the rest of your army is set up really.
I currently own 2 SG's and though they have killed a good amount of troops thanks to the blast, the unholsome amount of armour Ive been going against has me saving up for 3 princes.
True, the SG's can destroy armour in CC and they DO have a s10 ap1 shot but ive found them to be unreliable at best. At BS 3 they miss a lot (for my tastes) and with WS 3/ Init 3 I tend to loose them to ether meltas or enemy CC anytime I try to assault tanks with them.
Then of course there is the huge base to contend with....
But as others have said, it realy depends on your playstyle and army composition.