Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I fought the new orks for the first time today. They are interesting for the most part. I used a double lash list with 2 vindis, with a 5 termie squad in raider(3LTclaws,2ChFist), and 4 x10 csm squads (flamer/melta). he took unit of cans, 2 squads of 30 boys w/ nob, looted wagon, battle wagon, 5 deftkopters, 3 flashgitz, 5 bikes, and a unit of 8 nobs bodyguard for ghazghkull. Powerklaws everywhere he could put them except the dethkopters.
I honestly have to say, if it werent for the lashes, I dont think CSM would do very well against horde armies. Just don't have enough shots. I've always had the biggest problem against horde armies, so the metagame of the environment simply calls for it. I've seen all the arguements against it and whatnot, but I could care less.
As for the game, I think he should dropped the flash gitz and put powerklaws on the defkopters, cause if he did, he woulda flanked me big time then crush my vindi afterwards.
I think Ork got a good codex this time, as he still got into my ranks and did alot of damage before I could take them out.
If you think the orks are tough, you should try playing against the new Imperial Guards.
I played Space Marines against a single-lash CSM list. I had 2 units of assault termies and a Landraider. I lost badly.
I then played the same CSM guy, but with my Imperial Guards. This time I used mechanized guards and he used a double-lash list. And this time, he lost badly.
I also used the same IG list against another CSM player and beat him badly.
Watch out against the new guards.
One thing I might suggest which could aid you in a fight against a horde style army like orks/ig/tyranid/even kroot i guess are squads of havocs with maxed out flamers (a total of 6 i believe if you count the flamer you can put on the rhino). Drop 6 flamer templates on a swarm of infantry and they are going to be sorry they did it.
A friend of mine used to play orks around 3rd edition and I always had a heck of a time finding the killing power to put them down and the sheer amount of attacks they can bring to bear makes your higher toughness/armor/etc pretty worthless. However in this edition I think the new IG codex is a bit more worrisome to me than the ork one but of course it all depends on the player to make use of those new codexes effectively.
I actually hope we get some kind of cultist update soon (there are talks about doing a chaos legion/cult book sometime in 2010/11). I missed having a way to horde back against those armies and the cultists looked pretty cool. I was really hoping that the chaos daemon codex was going to have rules for some of those things but obviously that didn't happen.
edit: It is very odd to me that orks can be outdone on horde-style armies. I'm scared to see what the next round of codex releases bring.
Last edited by paregoric_HAL; June 7th, 2009 at 07:42.
Berzerkers and sonic marines are good against horde lists.
The berzerkers will need support and perhaps a hand with rhinos blocking other units lines of assualts. The sonic blaster noise marines will perform well just gunning down the orks. Id steer away from defilers and dreads as both are great in CC, but orks have numbers and a hidden fist that will break the poor walker in seconds.
Undivided lord with Daemon weapon or Nurgle weapon are good due to increased strength values.
The way how I beat hordes, is too beat them I close combat. Because they are almost always fearless, they will take twice the wounds and that can make them go down a lot faster. Never let orks charge you, because then they realy hurt. Tyranids can be trouble when your getting swarmed and then the hard-hitters come (genestealers). Against Imperial Guard, I have no idea, I never played against them, but the new codex look strong and as far as I know their mass lasguns can kill more chaos marines then you thought it could.
What needs to be done to defeat horde armies is to take things that work better against horde armies (heavy bolters, flamers, marks of khorne, blast weapons,etc) and determine the biggest threats and the best ways to score points and get to work. I don't know if i really consider IG a "horde" army as I hear IG rarely talking about massed infantry since the new codex came out. I would be more worried about taking out armor against IG whereas orkz/nids I would be worried about crowd control.
Yggdrassil is right. Orks aren't really brutal unless they get the charge and fearless+bad armor save is an ugly combination. Were it not for their charge bonuses and hidden powerklaws, those 30-Ork squads would be mere tarpits a la spinegaunt.The code words are "Chenkov" and "Creed".I don't know if i really consider IG a "horde" army as I hear IG rarely talking about massed infantry since the new codex came out.
Few armylists can beat horde opponents in shooting--CC is more damaging by far. Note the effectiveness of sweeping advance, stiff morale penalties (or fearless-induced casualties) and the simple fact that CC happens twice per turn, meaning our CSMs can do 4-5 bolter-strength attacks per turn instead of 1-2 in shooting. Uber-grit is a very strong advantage and the problems I have with hordes tend to be more like "not having enough powerfists to kill four Carnifexes" rather than "not being able to hold my own in CC against a mob of Orks".
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard