Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hello, followers of the plague. I've been playing with my nurgle a lot lately, and I think I've pretty much cracked it. So, playing with Nurgle, I'm going to be posting this living tactica here, and will update it at least weekly. Covering the units in a nurgle army. I'm going to start on the basics, and what every army needs. Or should have at least a bit of. But primarily I'm going to (tonight at least) have a look at the strengths and weaknesses of a Nurgle army, and how to compensate these. I'm going to start with the weaknesses. If you don't feel you're able to deal with these, then don't pick up the army.
Every army has a weakness, and Nurgle is no different. However, it's a very versatile army with no real weakness, other than the number of models. Nurgle quite often suffers from not enough boots on the ground syndrome. You will take high casualties if you find yourself outside cover and facing down an ordnance weapon. My 1500 point army only runs 21 troops models. And only has 29 models in total. It's something you just need to learn to deal with.
Another problem with Nurgle is that they don't have too much board presence. There are ways to change this, but generally much of nurgle's power lies in the short range fight. And, because of the low number of models, a Nurgle army has to support itself and this leads to there usually being "safe" areas for the enemy to move his models. Compared to say, a Dark Eldar or Eldar army, who can potentially threaten the board with a large "reach out and touch me". The saving grace we have for this are Daemon Princes and Predators. But we generally aren't able to dominate the board.
You can only kill so much:
With a low number of models, this means that there is a set amount you can kill over a game, you suffer from this against hordes. It's why template weapons can be a saving grace for Death Guard, those extra 6 models save quite a lot of Nurgle effort. =]. Keeping this in mind, It's best to try and win by objectives. Be prepared to win by attrition with a nurgle army. Other small model armies you tend to do well against, but the larger their army gets, the harder it becomes for you.
Small Arms Fire? What?
Nurgles biggest strength is the practical immunity to small arms fire. With AV11 vehicles minimum, T6 DPs, and T5 minimum, usually with FnP. Bolters practically bounce off. Pulse Rifles aren't much better. Lasguns? Hah! Anything that doesn't have AP3 tends to bounce off. Although, our Princes are a bit more vulnerable to things like Autocannons, if there's a lot of them. But against our troops, we're good. Don't expect to take no casualties, but you can be reassured that you won't take a heavy toll.
Nurgle armies kick ass in combat! It's just a fact. Our plague marines will beat anything that doesn't have a tonne of power weapons in combat. Our Daemon Princes can take out whole marine squads at once (hello warptime). Our Lords are hell with those Daemon Weapons. Frankly, anything short of specialist, we wipe the floor with. Not much to say here, it's true. Although, don't feel you need to charge, if it's something like Assault Marines, rapid fire them, and let them come to you. Blight Grenades will sort them out.
PLAYING WITH NURGLE
Nurgle on the Offense:
Many many people use there Plague Marines like they do their iPods. They leave them at home, sullen, misused, frustrated because they're not being used to their full potential. Leaving them rotting on an objective while the other units do the work. Now let me tell you something! I play with an all Nurgle army, and Plague Marines are our second best close combat troop, after berserkers. Yup, I said it. Want to know something? Plague Marines>Berzerkers in Combat. Assume, for fairness sake, they both charge. The Zerkers get roughly 1 wound (if that, they don't get charging bonuses). The Plague Marines then retaliate with about a wound. And then the Zerkers start wounding on 5's ;]. Powerfists of course change that, but they don't really change it enough to matter. However, if you work out what happens when you charge or are charged by 30 Ork Boyz between Plague Marines or Berzerkers... You'll be pleasantly surprised.
And this is why I recommend only having one plasma squad in your army. Because you can't fire them on the turn you charge. Which should be always after you have disembarked. Being in the open means you can be shot by Ordnance, being in combat means you're usually only vulnerable to a Power Fist. Then, if you're in combat you can bring in a Chaos Lord/Sorcerer/Daemon Prince. Not that most squads have a chance anyway after being rapid fired for a turn.
The KEY to Nurgle in 5th ed is Rhinos. No, Mortarion didn't like them, but he did NOT! NOT use them. If a situation that required rhinos appeared, Mortarion would use them. 5th Edition calls for them. Seriously. Mechanise. If not it will make life a lot more difficult. So, now that you've got your three or four rhinos, we can continue. Rhinos aren't very difficult to use. Try get them with a cover save, on turn one, run out of cover, then pop smoke. Then, from there, you start to move into position to take out units. They're really lovely little things.
Nurgle really suffers against "hard" units. Terminators especially cause issues these days. Our main way to take them down is bolter fire. But we need that for anti troop. Then there's our Daemon Princes. But then we get taken out by the TH/SS madness. They give us grief. And this applies to almost every hard unit. So, dealing with them? Frankly, it's difficult. I'm using the example of TH/SS termies here, but Nob Bikerz and Wraithguard are in similar situations. The unit absorbs so much firepower, it's unreal. The best way around it is ignoring them, or mass volume of shots. But, as chaos. We don't have any "mass volume of shots" to the extent that we need it. I mean, 24 S6 eldar shots from walkers is all well and good. But 12 S5 heavy bolter shots from our havoc squad doesn't quite cut it. Or our plague marines. 10 Bolter Shots and 2 Special Weapons. It's just not good enough. So, what can we do? Ordnance is a good solution! Yeah! A well placed vindicator shot downs about... one. Maybe two. What I'm getting at is frankly, these units tend to be a little broken (Wraithguard are all right, but TH/SS terms and Nob Bikerz aren't). They take way too much punishment, and there's not much we can do about it. To be honest, I try and ignore them. But it can be difficult, especially if it's Nob Bikerz, but i'll look at this when I come round to doing tacticas on the races. Just thought i'd warn you, Nurgle excels at killing things without invulnerable saves, or high armour, when we are faced with units like this, we face major problems.
General Battle Strategies
Nurgle armies tend to be small. We know this, we accept this, but ultimately we can't change this. We have to work around it. Now I mentioned earlier that we have very small board coverage (~10%, compared to Orks who can do ~40%). This however, does not make as unable to get where we are needed. Something I would like to introduce (and this doesn't just apply to Nurgle). Threat Zones.
A threat zone is basically the area in which a unit can cause havoc. Now, a Plague Marine's threat zone is 18". Move 6", rapid fire 12". A Daemon Prince's is the same (with wings). A Predators is 48", and a basalisks is 240". Now, due to the fact there's very few of us, and we cost a lot of points, we ALWAYS want to be doing something. It doesn't matter what really, it could even just be the intimidation factor of moving close to an enemy objective (hint: all your units seem more worrying when they threaten an objective, even rhinos. This is a great way to get the opponent to waste a units firepower on effectively an empty bean can). Now, this might all sound a bit obvious, but I am (hopefully) going somewhere with this.
back later, silly gf. =[
THE HOST OF THE PLAGUE LORD
Lords of the Host
Ah. Everyone seems to hate these things. Now, we are in quite a good position here. Our lords are quite nice. Especially with the Daemon Weapon. I occasionally run two lords on bikes with daemon weapons. T6, rerolling wounds against MEQs. It's better than the Undivided weapon. Now, running them. Well, there are three types of Lord (technically four, but trust me, there's three )
A popular chaos lord is wings, and a Daemon Weapon. Ours gets the MoN. The obvious nurgle advantages are given to our Lord, as well as the swell bonus of our Daemon Weapon. Now, the reason for wings. Gah! Time constraints. I'll be back ;]
Nurgle Space Marines:
Quite a few people disagree with running armour in Nurgle lists. Fair enough, you don't need to read this. If you don't use armour, then have fun against Eldar, Dark Eldar and Tau. Even Mech Marines. I wont force you, but seriously you need it. Nurgle's big weakness without armour is the tiny range of its anti tank. This is where we fix that problem. It also solves our mobility problem.
My favourite tank for a Nurgle army, this comes first. I run three. With Lascannon/Autocannon. Anything short of a land raider gets eaten. There are three setups for a Predator.
Cheap Antitank: This thing is 2 lascannons and an autocannon on wheels, for 130 points, I love it. AV 13-12 is what this should be pointed at. And it does that brilliantly. Personally I like to pop transports with these, and then let the meltas/DPs I run take out the bigger tanks. Seriously, this is the answer to our long range anti tank problem. Take at least one. Seriously, once you get one, you wont look back. I run three!
Dakka!: This is another one looked kindly upon. As we do struggle with hordes, the 115 point, autocannon/heavy bolter and Havoc Launcher setup pours out a lot of anti light infantry dakka. Although, in 2k (my new most common size) I already have 6 flame template weapons, so generally don't bother with it, and would rather have the anti tank. But if you're short on some anti infantry dakka, these can do very nicely (but are debatable compared to things like defilers and vindicators, albeit cheaper).
Expensive Antitank: Twin Linked Las with 2 Las sponsons. Costs a tonne, but is almost guaranteed 2 lascannon hits, usually three. The downside is the aforementioned cost. I would rather have the Cheap Antitank, but if you have points to burn, feel free to upgrade (but you can usually spend the points better).
So, with this in mind, why do I recommend the Predator so heartily? Nurgle armies anti tank is usually 12" range or less. A predator is four times that. That is amazing in this army. Being able to neutralise the enemy big guns while you cross the board is brilliant, then the meltas usually finish up on the tanks, but these will usually take out anything AV12 over a turn or two, and can do a number on AV13 if you roll well. If you can't grasp the importance of this you haven't played enough games as chaos. Long range anti tank is a godsend. With the Predator being #1 (in my books) followed by Obliterators (who in my opinion are still close range anti tank, due to them being much better at that).
Ok, they've been tested. About 8 games or so i've used three. To be honest, I like them. They look cool, they're quite hard in combat, they're good at taking transports out with shooting, and they distract people from my princes/predators/rhinos.
As to kit, I like to run them with a Heavy Flamer and a Missile Launcher. Now, I wouldn't advise running them with anything that isn't Dual DCCW, or a DCCW and Missile Launcher, simply because they won't kill each other if you do that. You can take something bigger, but I like the (slightly increased) reliability. And they're also 315 points. Which isn't too far away from some squads, like 10 Thousand Sons, or somesuch.
As to playing with them, I like to run mine in a "squad" of three. They tend to scare things away from them, and focus firing the missiles/flamers can take a big chunk out of enemies. And they can ruin vehicles in close combat. It's all good fun. But the biggest use for dreads is tarpitting. Considering most units can't even hurt these steel behemoths in combat, they can tie up an enemy squad indefinately. This is good for Nurgle, as it helps to mitigate the numerical disadvantage we sometimes encounter. I would seriously advise taking them in most games. I don't have room in 1.5k (sadly), but I take 3 in 2k
At least try them, they're a new favourite unit.
This is still a bit small. But i've not played with them too much. I'll add more once I get more accustomed to having them there.
Now, these things got a big big big buff going into 5th edition. No longer are they rolling metal deathtraps. As plague marines, worst possible case you usually don't even take a wound, if they blow up. So, what to do with them? Start deployed out of LoS/in cover if you're not going first (even then, I've had more than a few people sieze me). Then move full pelt and pop smoke. From there the next turn, you should be able to either move 12" and get into a good firing position, and blow something up/kill people. Or maneuvre into a better position.
Equipping Rhino's isn't difficult. Don't give them anything, it's pretty redundant. If anything, take a dozer to negotiate terrain better (I'm always driving through terrain in mine). But for 15 points it's not worth getting something that only affects one out of six possible results.
Also, take a lot of rhinos if you're taking any. They're fragile tanks, but there is safety in numbers. If you take a lot of rhinos, or tanks in general, then chances are more will survive. This is why most armies are totally mech, or not at all. Not much to say about rhinos. Just take them. Doubling your mobility (pretty much), is definately worth the cheap cheap price of rhinos.
STOP! Work will continue with time.
EDIT: I think I will write this in pieces, THEN patch it together. As such I'll also answer requests for people ;].
EDIT2: How do I increase font size from the edit feature?
I would love for you to address the misnomer that Nurgle marines (of any kind) are best left as objective squatters. As a Death Guard player, since switched to Black Legion, since gone back to Death Guard, I've found that Nurgle marines typically are too costly for depositing their rumps on top of objectives for holding till the end of days.
I've got some ideas on this, but I'll leave the initial synopsis up to you, as you're putting together the tactica...
Hope this has not thrown you for a loop, although I feel confident you can address all issues
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Ok folks, any input in what you want me to cover first? Some direction would be nice. Covering an entire army is hard hard work. And this will take a while I imagine. Anyone got any requests?
I can do everything from how to deal with armies, to what to give your Raptors.
A section on what vehicles are considered themetic and how to incorporate them into ur lists would be mighty helpful. I love the fluffy aspect of this theme but havent gotten into it enough yet to figure out how and what kind of "mech" stuff they may use.
Of course this is just my opinion though and highly doubt I wont enjoy this tactica anyways
I'm curious to see your thoughts on dreadnaughts. I use them in my armies and know most chaos players think they are worthless >.<
Good work thus far.
In my 2000 Point games I will either add a unit of plague marines and 5 Nurgle Termies with shooty upgrades+Chainfist or 2 chaos dreadnoughts with missile launchers/combat weapons.
My 1500 point list (which is what gets added to) is:
2 Princes w/MoN + Warptime
3 Plague Marine Squads w/2 Meltas (2 squads have flamers) Champ w/PF (2 squads have combi flamers) and rhinos
3 Predators with las/autocannon setup.
The reason I take the dreadnoughts is that scaling up in points means the enemy brings more anti tank, which means you need to bring more tanks to compensate. The termies however can be quite fun, and absorbing a battlecannon shot is always good. The reason i take Missile/CCW is so that I can run them next to each other, if they fire frenzy, i just loose a Frag missile into my other dread. No harm done. Bringing 2 DPs, 2 Dreads, 4 rhinos and 3 preds to 2k is quite fun.
I'll finish writing this up this afternoon (the mech section) I think.
I don't think that i would use a dedicated nurgle army, i like the Plague marines, and i can see the advantages of extra toughness (especially on bikes) but it really is going to be better on more expensive units, like Terminators (which i prefer a min of 5, and bikes, which i have only ever used as a squad of 10 in bigger games), in my current list, i have 8 zerkers with PF in rhino x2 and 8/10 plagues (can't remember) with 2 Meltas).
if this tactica ends up as good as it looks it will, it may change my mind
Ok, Preds done, and the next things to be looked at will be Dreadnoughts and Rhinos. I'm dreading doing Plague Marines. There's going to be a LOT to write.
Agreed, very nice info, i play Nurgle myself only recently getting into the gaming side. Tactics/comparisons are always nice, keep it up.