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I've been play testing Greater Daemons lately and have found them to be very cost effective at least against marines any reasons to not include them in any kind of army ? there a pretty cheap HQ that rips apart everything I found. One game it went through 1 squad of TH/SS Terminators and Belail then turned around and destroyed a Vindicator
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He's effective, no doubt. Here are two reasons why I rarely use him:
1) He costs more than 100 points. Once you factor in the champ, assuming a basic grunt, then his cost goes from 100 to 130.
2) He's unpredictable. This wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem, except that if he happens to come on the field on round 2, and you're still miles away from the enemy, then he's a dead beat. Your opponent can easily avoid him, and he'll end up chasing after whatever he can, until he finds some close combat ensuing that he can plunge on into.
I'm not saying he's a bad choice, but just pointing out the hidden factors
Spambot kill tally. . .337
I use one in my 2000 point list.
I love doing flat out driveby demon dumps on units.
I also like fielding my FW GUO, really gets opponents worked up when I plop that thing down on the table.
Yes, I did deep-strike your sister...
Necrons : W-8 D-3 L-7 (Sleeping in their TombFoam, waiting for a new codex)
Chaos Forces (CSM/CD): W-42 D-19 L-28
Apocalypse Games : W-4 D-0 L-1 (4 Titans, Brass Scorp, 3 Baneblades, 2 Bombers, 3 Fighters, and a Partrage in a Pear Tree)
Because in most of the lists i write up,i rarely have champions included in any of my units.Only when i get to 2000 points that i start including champions.But if you work good with one in your army,knock yourself out,it doesn't work with the way i employ my army.
I'd say go for it, Greater Daemons are a rarity at my shop and its always fun to see them. Its also quite fluffy which helps I find. Just my 2 pence.
I've used Big Swole before, and he does ok. But since he has to be a 2nd / 3rd HQ, it means my HQ section is getting pretty heavy on the points. and you really need enough MCs / Tanks / Oblit units to saturate the field or he'll get popped by anti-tank and plasma fire fairly quick.
Still, for his cheap price (for a chaos HQ choice anyway) he's solid enough. I just don't often find the points for him since I like to have kitted champs in squads, bumping his cost to 155 minimum (and a loss of Ld in one of my CSM units). Might be a use for a termie / possessed / chosen champion though.
I completely agree with Rabbit's comments. The Greater Daemon is not a great choice for a tournament list because of the uncertainty.
However, I don't play tournaments, and find the Greater Daemon to be great fun! Yes, the inconsistency of arrival time can be a bummer, but usually he comes out at a good time and smashes lots and lots of stuff. Plus the models are cool, and look awesome on the table.
The uncertainty also makes them a nightmare for your opponent. They have no idea where the GD is going to show up.
This makes them almost impossible to counter.
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The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
And even if he does have to pop out too far to assault, just start walking him towards something you'd like gone. In my experience you will see one of the following occur:
A ) He gets ignored for scarier targets like vindicators until he reaches melee and eats a squad wholesale, then he'll be vaporized by the entire enemy army's shooting the following round. Generally, this is a very good trade for you.
B ) He'll pop out and just eat the entire enemy army's heavy weapons fire then keel over dead. Consider him a "get out jail free" card for your other vehicles, and be happy that your other elements are now in much better position to crush your foe.
C ) Rather then ignore him entirely or expend lots of shooting to drop him, the enemy simply runs away from him, tossing the odd pot-shot to whittle him down. In this case, chasing something you don't want sitting still / on an objective.
He's unpredictable, and that works both ways. I like him, I just don't often have a good squad for him to be popping out of, so I don't take him.
When I field a Greater Daemon in casual games, I generally bring him onto the table through a chosen squad.
Here's the unit I use for summoning a greater daemon:
Chaos Chosen Squad-
*9x chosen with IoK
**2-3x special weapons
**1x champion with fist
**1x champ without further upgrades (for summoning the daemon)
For one thing, the chosen champ is 10 points rather than 15, but that's pretty much a null point, considering that chosen are also 3 points more expensive than basics. That said, the chosen provide you with field position which should take advantage of a premature summoning roll, since they are usually forward placed. In addition, chosen seem very conducive to the greater daemon, because you can simply upgrade a secondary model as the host. This preserves for the host squad their fisted champ.
Tactics: More often than not, I advance the chosen squad towards the prime enemy target, while my rhinos and other parts of my spearhead rush from behind. By turn 3, if all goes according to plan, the greater daemon is on the table, and he and the chosen squad begin thrashing through the enemy's rank and file. By round 3-4, they are reinforced by rhino infantry.
Spambot kill tally. . .337