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I have a few questions; I am currently building a small chaos cult army for 40k.
Iím using the Empire Flagellants as the base models with converted lasguns (or maybe autoguns) with a few mutations and cyborg bits throw for good measure. I want to point out this is a Ďfun projectí itís not going to be a tournament winning (or maybe even legal) army.
So here are my questions,
1) What would be more realistic for chaos cultists to be armed with lasguns or autoguns? I have always considered lasguns to be a military grade weapon and not something a citizen (or even a criminal) would be able to just lay his hands on one, so would autoguns be more fitting?
2) What list would best serve my cult? I have the eye of terror codex and this includes the Lost and Damned army list giving options for mutants and big mutants and chaos hounds and spawn. And as long as I donít use any option not in the Eye of Terror codex list itself then itís still legal.
But is there a better list out there? I was considering just using necromunda rules but I love building horde armies and I want to use this army in pick up games of 40k if I can.
The only two lists/codexes I will not use are the Ďnid codex (as I have two Ďnids armies already) and the Ork codex (as I have almost finished a 3000pt converted alien army using that codex).
3) Regarding fluff, how much would a given chaos cult know about chaos?
I have an idea for my cults beliefs, my cult donít worship a chaos god in itself. They in fact worship a finger. A finger of Nurgle that was cut off in a battle by Khorne aeons ago and was lost in the warp. It has now become a corrupting influence all by its self and has comprised a grand scheme to get Nurgles attention and have its master reattach it to its rightful place, on the left the hand of Nurgle himself.
Ofcourse the cult only know what the finger tells them though dreams and visions. Hence the name of the cult, The Cult of the Vile Finger.
Any thoughts? Iím open to any suggestions regard the basic fluff, conversion ideas for mutants and colour schemes or anything else. Iíve googling anything I can regard chaos cults, but it seems that not many of them are on the internet. So if you have any pictures please share I could use the inspiration!
I AM BOOMER!
Q1: Chaos cultists will use whatever they can lay their hands on. Autoguns will certainly be common but the first thing the cult will do when the insurrection is launched will be to raid Imperial facilities in search of kit. This is really the only way a cult on an imperial world would be able to get the heavy and special weapons.
Forgeworld make renegade upgrade packs for the cadian plastics and they also do weapon upgrade packs filled with autoguns and spiky arms etc. Getting a few of these would add colour to your conversions. Necromunda figures and weapons could also be good to throw in. Forgeworld also wo weapon packs for Kreig, Tallarn and Elysian troops which will all mix in nicely.
Q2: The lost and the damned army list in the eye of terror codex is showing its age. It alows you to take elements from a chaos codex which has been revised a few years ago. A better option would be the forgeworld siege of Vraks books. Vol 1 and 2 have chaos renegade guard lists following the cults of khorne and undevided. You can bring in alpha legion squads or berserkers as elite choices for example and also get chaos ogres and hound packmasters. In a few weeks Vol 3 is released and that has a Nurgle cult army with plague ogryns and zonbies added. This list is also updated in line with the new imperial guard codex so you should have no trouble with anything being out of date.
Q3: In the vraks books the cultists follow a renegade cardinal and begin by not knowing much about chaos at all. Later in the campaign more and more chaos influence shows itself and the lists have a class structure with veterans being represented by chosen chaos followers. Guardsmen are the standard chaps and conscripts are just worker rabble units not really trusted by the cult but enforcers (commisars) keep them in line with wips.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
Mad cat mentioned it but I want to expand upon his comment. Siege of vraks is an excellent source of information about cultists, what they use, how they operate, what they look like, etc. The first time I looked through that book I was so excited for all the possibilities it provided. If you have any way to get your hands or eyes on that book, do it, asap!
I love the cultists, I loved the lost and the damned army list and was very annoyed when they didn't do anything with it with the new editions. I'm glad at least FW is keeping the dream alive. Maybe we can all start a movement to give FW all our money from now on and starve GW of $ until they fall in line ?
I'm currently building a chaos marine list but I'm constantly scouring ebay and other sources for cheap cultists or units I can convert into them so when they release that legion/cult codex I'm ready with a horde of them. Alpha Legion/Word Bearers here I come =D.
Answers to your questions:
1)Shotguns, autoguns, lasguns, bolt pistols taken from dead marines, sticks, stones, ork-style custom weapons, and weapons upgraded with things from the black market. Really anything they can use that makes the enemy hurt. In the siege of vraks books it outlines how they are using such a wide collection of armament and plenty of weapons taken from dead guardsmen , custom made weapons, and older weapons from the vaults on their world (like the malcador tanks). For me personally I prefer nasty short range weapons and close combat stuff for my average cultist. The FW models have some ogryns carrying steel rebar or pipe that was pulled out of the ground with cement sticking to it like a maul/sledgehammer . Stuff like that is perfectly chaos cultist-y.
Forge World CHAOS RENEGADES I would take a look through that for some great ideas if you cant get hold of the books. They also have free sneak peeks into each book that might give you a glimpse of some stuff. If there is absolutely no hope of you getting the books PM me and I'll try to help you out.
2) I figure you have 3 options that would actually give you a decent end result:
I)Imperial Guard - Obvious, but really the best choice imo. Lets you be tournament legal and your units will match up perfectly with the army list entries (or should be very close). With another codex you might have to squash your average cultist into an army list entry that really is nothing like a cultist and has different wargear, etc.
II)LatD . Really nice list, but not tournament friendly (although I've heard some places allow it ?)
III)3.0-3.5 Alpha Legion/Word bearers - Wouldnt be only a cultist army if you go this route, but the combination of the two armies is really cool to witness and play like the old days. Word bearers fit perfectly into your flagellants theme too.
3 ) A lot of the cults don't really know much about chaos, or even that they are joining a chaos cult up until they start getting attacked by loyalist forces. The whole job of a cult leader is to slink into an area, usually poor or war-torn, and start recruiting people for a new group , usually under the pretext of helping revive the area/stop the wars/etc. They might feed some people, help the poor find shelter, and gain the trust of the followers/city/etc. That is when they slowly start adding more and more chaos-like rituals, maybe blood sacrifice or ritual orgies(for slaanesh), etc. Once the people are truly enthralled is when they finally open the flood gates to full on disclosure of their chaos masters and by then it is too late to back out. At that point it is either stick with the club or be one of the many slaughtered/tortured by it.
So it is really up to you. You can have a cult army that was recruited a long time ago and is fully dedicated to their chaos god(s). Or you can have an army that is just at the beginning stages and simply like a guard militia army that isnt as well equipped and maybe have some chaos psykers involved keeping the cultists in a frenzy with their unholy preaching/sorcery.
Last edited by paregoric_HAL; August 14th, 2009 at 12:18.
Thanks both of you for the insightful suggestions.
I do know of the siege of Vraks books but I have never had a chance
to read them (should of bought them when I was at WHW!).
Iím not too fussed about having a game winning army with these guys really.
This is more a fun converting project.
I really like the idea of having a rabble horde of crazy guys in their jim jams running around and getting them selfís killed in huge numbers since I imagine I will face space marines almost every game. And I also want to include a shed load of mutant
conversions so for now I think I will stick with the LatD army list.
I do really love the forge world stuff but I think it would be more suited for Blood Pact armies rather than a lightly armed cult. But I am going to some of the big Chaos ogryns so I may pick up the Vraks 3 book at the same time.
I AM BOOMER!
Greetings kindred spirit! I have been wanting to do what you are doing for a long time! I would love to make a horde army of Chaos Cultists that resemble the ones in Dawn of War. I would probably do Chaos Undivided. I have a very fluffy AND (local) tournament winning Imperial Guard army called the Uradeln 21st Regiment but I don't just want my cultists to be "traitor guard," because that's basically a cop-out and an excuse not to really kit-bash, and not really what I'm looking for. Anyhow, it is good to see a kindred spirit! This is my first post because I wanted to reply to your message so I just now registered on this site!
Check out this picture for some ideas specific to Nurgle:
Zombie Guardsmen by *CaptainThomas on deviantART
And this link is of regular Chaos Cultists, which you also might be interested in (the guy used Cadian and Flagellants bits!).
Miniatures by captainthomas on deviantART
The artist seems like a cool guy and we messaged back and forth some time ago about this so he would most likely love to talk to you about these conversions if you ask him.
Oh yeah, in the novels, the cultists often use Autoguns because these are widely available to Planetary Defense Forces (as opposed to Lasguns being widely used by the Guard) and I think they are available to the civilian population too. Somewhere I read that cultists are more likely to wield autoguns rather than lasguns and the cultists just seem to use them all the time in the novels.
I am curious as to how you will make autoguns on your models though. I am not aware of actual autogun bits by games workshop. Lexicanum.com has some decent autogun pics:
Autogun - Lexicanum
I am also doing this model and fluff wise I think everything has been answered but rules wise I am using the summoned demons rules sometimes and doing them as part of my csm force but most of the time I am using the guard list.
but yes in the necromunda book it says that while las guns are very common through out the galaxy auto guns are easy to make in home made weapon forges so both are fine I think