Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
So this would appear to be another new Daemons player. I started out with nids, moved to WH, and moved to Grey Knights and while I enjoy my Sisters, I've slowly been finding I play DH better and they've worked out much better for me. I have a friend who is just starting out and has about 1000 points of orcs, and another who has easily 3k+ of nids and refuses to play me anymore. Another friend of mine if picking up tau and I figured now would be a good time to pick up another army and Daemons tickled my fancy (I know, kind of a big leap there xD). The more I thumbed through the Codex at the store the more I really started to enjoy it. Not only is it different, but it doesn't seem to have a huge following (at least around here).
My Questions are:
A) How competive it it? I've read through a few things and they do seem to work out well despite the randomness, but I would like to hear it directly.
I would like to play Tzeneech, and with my stubborness to "pure" themes, it would probably be 100% Tzneech. How does Tzneech fair, and would 100% Tzneech gimp me?
C) Are they as much as a pain to paint as they look?
D) From what I understand, they use the same models as fantasy daemons, which is nice because I know some fantasy player and have been meaning to play that too. The problem being differnet bases. How hard would it be to make them interchangable? I can't see it being to hard.
Thanks in advance =D
A: A good enough player will do very good with them. They just have a high learning curve plus Pantheon is the most competitive list
B: Mono god is generally alright. They're focused on one aspect so they're things that they'll never be able to deal with because they only focused on one aspect. Tzeentch is probably the best off because shooting is pretty much a utility. Pantheon is still a better list but Tzeentch will take names
C: That's up to you
D: Not hard at all. It's a very common question that comes up so just search around and you get an answer (in fact I think a thread on the first page of this thread is about this). Just so you know though you can use the square bases in 40K since the rule is that you use the base they come with which for Daemons includes square bases.
a) Not competitive in 40k, they're too random and have a very tough time against mech and armies that can counter deep strikers. They are fantastic in Fantasy though.
b) Monogod makes life harder, but it can be fun. Tzeentch is all shooty, so you'll need something to protect your flimsy units in HtH. Princes or Grinders in this case.
c) It can be as difficult or easy as you like
d) just stick to square bases, won't be a problem
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
hello ikbuh welcome to my home territory i to love my sisters to but until there all ready Deamons are my number one army and so is Tzeneech.
i play a 2000pts all Tzeneech Fatewever list and im happy to say as of late i have more wins then losses it is not an ez list to play but it is one of the most fun.
the key to Deamons is to look at how your opponent deploys his army and work out a plan that uses one half of your army most of the game and the rest to support you plan as the game gos on... it can be about a ez as it sounds.
in game 1750pts and up i recommend Fatewever as much as i can last game i had Fatewever and thee Tzeneech deamon Princes take on 10 terminator and a cheep Hq. not by over powering them but by out lasting them in combat my opponent was not so happy.
one more thing before i go non stop about my army is one thing that works grate for a Tzeneech army is BoT spam all most every Tzeneech unit in can take BoT and its grate for taking out rhinos in the early turns of the game.
Well, that's good to know, thanks for the answers =D
I did indeed find a good conversion link for fantasy/40k bases so I will be joining my fantasy friends =D
I'm not to concerned about the learning curve. I have this amazing ability to pick out things that are hard to play; I'm used to it (GK and footslogging sisters for example).
Anti-Tank looks like it would be the biggest problem (especially in 5th), but Screamers, BoT, and Defilers/Princes should be enough right, at least on paper in the codex.
What should I start gathering: Herald(s)/chariot(s), flamers, pinkies? Maybe a SG/DP?
Herald of Tz on Chariot w/ BoT, Master of Sorcery and We Are Legion are amazing. Incredible moible shooting jetbike (which includes anti tank) for T4 W5 and 4++ for only 110, I highly suggest two. No model yet but its an easy conversion, just buy a High Elf or Tomb King chariot from Fantasy and convert from their
I will say this, for the heavy slot what every you pick take at least two of it no matter what, especially for the Soul Grinder. Personally i use 2 SG but if i want a 3rd heavy i'll take a DPoT for the Bolt
Screamers are just kinda meh. They just don't do their job well. Pretty much every tank in the game move at cruisng speed so your going to hit on 6+ so usually do nothing and the vehicles that stay at combat speed are sticking around enemy lines so if you go for the assault your going to die on your opponent's next turn. They just don't cut it. They're fine in Fantasy though so you can pick some up for sure.
You can't go wrong from there. Just don't both with Icons and Instrument of Chaos and you'll do fine
That's what I had read. The heralds of Tzneech just seem awesome for the points cost. I'll agree with the screamers looking back at them. They're an at first glance model it seems. I mean packs of melta bombs on jetbikes? Sounds awesome, but they don't have anything else going for them.
I threw together a 1k list I'll shoot for as a starter, which I'll post after this, though that was before you mentioned the 2 heavies together (DP in this case). Not sure how much of an impact it has at 1k, but take a look =D
Thanks again, the more I read the more I want to play them xD
Just a comment on the competitiveness part...
They can be countered by a smart opponent, if he knows they are coming.. but against a take all comers list, I feel it is at an advantage. Daemons are played so very differently than any other army, its often difficult for opponents to gauge their threat level. Often an opponent will feel quite confident after the first two turns and thier losses have been nil, and then they start getting hit with power weapons, MC, rending. and in turns 3-4 the table turns.
I always take ICONs, putting one in each drop. At first I didnt, trying to save the 50 points, but had too many units die due to scatter. Now they drop with nothing to fear, within 6", and will be crushing the opponent next turn.
I won a 4 week tounry here at my club out of 22 entrys. So I know they can be competitive.
NECRON Army List Builder a Free excel capable list generator for 5th and 6th ed. 11/2011
Necrons - 6000 points, Tau - 6000, Daemons - 5250, Eldar - 4500, Blood Angels - 5000
Some pics form my hobby. http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r...arodragon/40k/
Chaos Daemons are definitely competitive, despite what some may say. They won last year's Ard Boyz Finals, and I recently won a rather competitive tournament with an army of them.
All that said, they can be difficult to use, and your definition of 'competitive' may vary. Personally, I only think two armies in 40k are definitely not competitive: Tau and Necron. Tau isn't competitive because they have no (besides a single model) power weapons or powerfists available. Necron isn't competitive because of phase out, which isn't as detrimental as some say, but its impact in point based tournaments is large given that being massacred instead of suffering a 'minor loss' is often enough to knock you out of the running in a single round. You could also argue that Daemonhunters and Sisters of battle aren't that competitive, but you can mix both with Imperial Guard and/or Marines, which helps them a lot.
Anyway, Daemons are a very random army, and to some, this may make them seem uncompetitive. The reality is that every army has randomness to it, and any army can lose any game simply because of the dice rolls going badly. The trick is to minimize risk and maximize effectiveness, and that has less to do with your list and much more to do with how you play. In regards to lists, to me competitive means 'streamlined'. In other words, it's as efficient and powerful as possible, given the army and overall type of list it is.
Chaos Daemons are competitive because it's the best assault army in all of 40k. No other army can match its sheer close combat power, not even the Tyranids, Chaos Marines, or Daemonhunters. What makes them great is their incredible number of close combat attacks, movement speed, monstrous creatures, and skill (WS, init) in close combat. They definitely have their weaknesses (shooting, few vehicles, no transports), and you have to learn to deepstrike effectively, but if you like the sounds of that, then I'd definitely play them.
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."