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  1. #1
    Outcast Shinigami thedrifter777's Avatar
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    Long Range Threats

    I love my Chaos Marines but my main problem is countering long range firepower. Particularly infantry units like Dev squads or heavy weapons teams in cover. Many of the players in my club are such stand and shoot players. While in Objective games I'm confident I can take and hold them, in annihilation I'm literally outgunned.

    So my question is what do players use or utilize to counter stand and shoot opponents?

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    ZMB
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    I have been seeing a lot of that as well. Now that I have been up against a fair number of shootie armies I have been taking fewer or even no tanks and spamming oblits...Six oblits can mean six plasma cannons, and ifantry do not care for it...If guard is a problem....you might consider LD's as they can charge the same turn that the come into the game.

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    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    Oblits are great, especially if they don't have a lot to insta kill them. Vindicators will put big holes in shooty squads, especially with Demonic Possession. DSing Termies are very nice as well, HF or Meltas will clear a big section, especially if they wade into CC afterwards.
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    Senior Member seismic's Avatar
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    Long range threats eh?

    ...

    I'd say its the stench of the Chaos marine player , Ha!

    I'm hilarious. Seriously though , you guys need to shower more .

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    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMB View Post
    I have been seeing a lot of that as well. Now that I have been up against a fair number of shootie armies I have been taking fewer or even no tanks and spamming oblits...Six oblits can mean six plasma cannons, and ifantry do not care for it...If guard is a problem....you might consider LD's as they can charge the same turn that the come into the game.
    Oblits have always been a bit tricky option for me. On the one hand, they aren't vehicles, yet, on the other, most opponents will target them over a pred, simply because they easily fall prey to instant-killing las cannons. If you're looking to make an all-infantry chaos list, then it's usually best to avoid oblits. After all, they are an obvious target, especially if your build does not include any vehicles to suggest there are other targets for enemy tank busting.

    As for dealing with long range threats, aside from oblits and preds, we don't have much in the way of consistent ranged options. Defilers work, if their battle cannon doesn't scatter. A well rounded chaos list *should* be capable of dealing with devastator squads and other long range support units. Rush them with the infamous rhino spam and deep strike plenty of termis with plasma volley. If all else fails, summon a greater daemon behind their rank and file. Really, the problem is getting behind the lines. Once you're there, we have plenty of ways for dealing with ranged forces. Even a 10 man marine squad reaps havoc on devastators.
    Last edited by Rabbit; October 12th, 2009 at 23:26.
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    ZMB
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    Vindcators are cool-ass tanks...I have found the when going against most shootie armies, it last about two turns...Oblits are not tanks and have 2+/4+ saves....4+ because you always keep them in cover...Oblit have a gaint target painted on their weapon morphing heads...and for good reason. Keep them in cover and they will live long enough to anger your opponent.

    Deep striking termies almost never works out for me...Termies do die to massed fire, so that after they deep strike and have been shot to pieces...By your next turn you probably have one or two left to play arround with...At lest LD's can asault the turn the come in...Run some CSM's in a rhino with some sort of Icon and drive the rolling coffin into the frey...Have the LD's lock onto the Icon and charge into what ever unit you desire.

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    Senior Member Kabbala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMB View Post
    ....you might consider LD's as they can charge the same turn that the come into the game.
    I'm fairly new to playing the CSMs, but where exactly in the CSM codex does it say that Lesser Demons are allowed to assault the same turn they arrive?
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    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    Under the rules for how demons are summoned and what not. Units in Rhinos with Icons charging a gunline with smoke and dropping 2 good sized units on them, possible for a multi-charge is devastating. I'm shocked almost no one does this.
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    Outcast Shinigami thedrifter777's Avatar
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    @ Rabbit

    Getting into CC, even with Rhino rush, is considerably harder than it seems, especially (and ironically for this thread) against stand and shoot enemies who have enough firepower to bring you and your transports down at range.

    If that is indeed our best option then I suppose I'll just have to accept it, but I can't believe chaos players best option to hit a unit in cover is just to rush in before we get smoked.

    Do people have any luck with havoks, for example? I'm wondering if 4 autocannons may be a good choice due to their high strength and number of shots. Given that targets you are likely to be firing at are in cover, the AP shouldn't matter.
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    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    It's not to bad if you run 3+ Rhinos in 1500, 4+ in 1750 so on and so forth. Between Smoke, average number of good strength guns and terrain blocking LoS (it can be done!) you can get a really decent number on a enemies doorstep.
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