Are deamon Princes from CSM still considered deamons? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member slann-o-engine-eo's Avatar
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    Are deamon Princes from CSM still considered deamons?

    weird rules argument came up today while playing.

    are deamon princes in chaos space marines still considered a deamon even though it says in the special rules that it is not.

    no rule says its a deamon, just like their is no rule saying possed and chaos spawn are deamons either. and are summon deamons and greater deamons considered deamons?

    im just wondering because most things that are deamons have a deamonic rule like all deamons in the deamon book.

    this is a heavy argument because if they are considered deamons then are deamon possessed vehicles considered deamons also?


    this whole argument sprang about when space wolves had a weapon that could wound deamons on a 2+ and I was wondering if the CSM deamon prince is still a deamon even though the marines and deamons split. another reason is because deamon princes arnt even deamons that much in the book just overly mutated champions with massed glory from his marks of his god....mostly just because they do not say they are deamons like other deamons.....like the avatar for eldar it specificaly says its a deamon and deamons in the deamon book say they are.



    claraifications and arguments would be helpful thanks


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    I have to go with IS a daemon.

    The Daemon Prince is listed as a monstrous creature. The Greater Daemon in the CSM book is also a monstrous creature type, and the lesser daemons are called infantry.

    Also, the detailed entry calls them Space Marines that have achieved Daemonhood.

    They're also called Daemon Princes.

    The model the Space Wolves have is a Rune Priest, so if you see one of these on the board, try shooting or assaulting with your non-daemons first.

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    Member Zeruel13's Avatar
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    Or just assault it with your Daemon Prince anyways. There's a very good chance a Daemon Prince will kill the Rune Priest before he even gets to attack anyways.

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    Senior Member Doomlord's Avatar
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    i will need to agree whit that the Daemons prince, Graeter daemon, lesser daemons, spawn and possesed are all daemons, but the vehicles whit daemonic possesion i m not sure about.

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    Son of LO thenewKhan's Avatar
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    I would interpret the CSM book with RAW approach, if there isnt a rule that says "demon" then I would say it isnt. Simply going off of fluff generally isnt the best argument.

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    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thenewKhan View Post
    I would interpret the CSM book with RAW approach, if there isnt a rule that says "demon" then I would say it isnt. Simply going off of fluff generally isnt the best argument.
    Pretty much. In 3rd edition chaos, princes were classed as "daemons." However, I haven't found anything in 4th edition to support this. In fact, even lesser & greater daemons have no "Daemon" Special Rule!
    Last edited by Rabbit; October 13th, 2009 at 09:10.
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    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    Grey knights get certain bonuses against daemons. Their codex is obviously an old one but contains a list of units considdered to count as daemons for their special rules. CSM lesser daemons and greater daemons are included as are possessed and CSMs with a certain amount of chaos upgrades etc. This last point is more dificult but I would include all daemon princes as daemons and possibly any chaos lord with a daemon weapon. The eldar avatar is also included as a daemon.
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  9. #8
    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Cat View Post
    Grey knights get certain bonuses against daemons. Their codex is obviously an old one but contains a list of units considdered to count as daemons for their special rules. CSM lesser daemons and greater daemons are included as are possessed and CSMs with a certain amount of chaos upgrades etc. This last point is more dificult but I would include all daemon princes as daemons and possibly any chaos lord with a daemon weapon. The eldar avatar is also included as a daemon.
    Well, unless the SW codex makes a reference to the DH's book the point is moot, RAW does not state the DP as a daemon, SW codex has no list of what is considered a daemon --> daemon prince is not a daemon.

    And as stated before, referring to fluff has no forbearance on the rules, GW openly states this in their "poison also affects undead models".

    Besides, i could make the point that because the daemon prince is part human, he is not affected by rules that affect daemons. Avoid the fluff-makes-rule explanations.
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    Murder omgitsduane's Avatar
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    Aren't they more like giant champions of chaos, slightly possessed but not to the point to become fully fledged daemons... the greater daemon I would suggest is all daemon but the prince no.

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    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    I'd be hard pressed to say that the spirit of the rules precludes greater and lesser daemons from falling under the umbrella of daemon-hood. However, isn't is rather odd that GW didn't classify our summoned daemons as "daemons?" That said, rules as written deprives any model in the chaos codex as belonging to the daemon race, although the spirit of the rules strongly spakes otherwise, at least in regards to the summon folk.
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