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Welcome, welcome, one and all to the very first installment of a new series called...
Your Favorite Unit Sucks!
Wherein we find everyone's favorite unit in the game of Warhammer 40,000 and break it down to show you how terrible it really is.
This is a fun exercise where we take units that are generally regarded as good and we tear them down. With some critical thinking we can give people ideas about what exactly they want in their armies, how to (shock horror) think for themselves, and maybe, just maybe, figure out how wrong the internet's prevailing opinions can be. If nothing else, it's an excuse for ==Me== to say funny words and make fun of people under the guise of being informative.
So join us, won't you, as we learn how much...
Your Favorite Unit Sucks!
First up today, the Pink Horrors of Tzeentch. Largely regarded as a favorite Troop pick for their impressive firepower and resilience against high strength, low AP weapons.
Too bad they suck more than a space ship with a hull breach.
1) Horrors are the most expensive Troops choice and the 2nd most fragile (Bletters live longer against S3 and below, they tie at S4, and Horrors last longer on S5+, Bletters are 1 point less apiece). To get a survivable unit you need to shell out big bucks (points?) for them, any smaller and they can get blasted by lasguns!
2) Horrors shred infantry, but pretty much everything in the army does. Daemons don't need help killing off infantry, there's plenty that do that. What Daemons critically lack is reliable anti-tank, and 1 BS3 bolt is not sufficient.
3) Horrors suck on the drop, since they are shooty you would be tempted to fire upon landing. Doing so keeps them bunched up into what is lovingly referred to as "please pie plate me" formation. If they do shoot, they will die to any template or blast weapon directed at them will see them off or at least hurt significantly (see T3). This gives you a choice of either running to avoid getting dead or risking it. Daemons cannot reliably knock out tanks in significant numbers so getting nailed by templates is always a concern (if your opponents don't field vehicles and lots of flamers/pies, use them to clean your carpet cuz they suck ). So you run, which renders their vaunted firepower useless. Horrors suck on later drops. They may not suffer as much against templates since you took them out before (right?), but coming in later limits their firepower. Nothing sucks like paying 200 points for mop up duty that can't cut the mustard against entrenched enemies or vehicles, especially when the first volley of fire sent their way kills them off in droves.
4) Horrors have short range and are laughably inept in assault. These go hand in hand, since any assault unit (or even regular line units like Tactical Marines) can beat them down in HtH after closing the rather short distance.
Last edited by ==Me==; November 11th, 2009 at 20:50. Reason: Always thinking about Daemonettes...
1) Considering how many more High strength weapons and attacks their are compared to S3 and less, i would go out to say Horrs are more durable then Bloodletters, plus Bloodletters are 1pt cheaper then Horrors, not 3
2) Horrors are one of the few units that can shread infantry on the turn they drop, which is great since it helps reduces the amount of damage that the enemy can put out for later turns. Plus they can take Bolt so can have the ability to take out vehicles.
3) I'd welcome it. Obviously i wouldn't be retarded and purposefully deep strike close enough to potentially get flamered to death and any pie plate thats going to hit them will certainly be stronger then S5 so Horrors would be more durable then most other units. And it reduces the amount of shooting on my assault units
4) Yes they suck an assault, what shooting unit doesn't. But Horrors have the advantage of having 4+ invul which is great in dealing with GOOD assault units. I had tons of games where Carnifexs and Oblidorators and what have you get stuck in battle which Horrors and can't get past the 4+ invul save. Usually long enough to get other units that can deal witht the threat into combat and take it down.
Horrors aren't good because they're great at shooting, they're go-od because of the synergy they have with assault units. They show up turn 1 and just rain warpfire right away dealing plenty of casualties. This in turn reduces the damage capable of being done the the assault units, which will inturn make it easier to get them in combat and really win the battle. Throw in the changling to potentially stop a unit from shooting at our assault units and causing more damage to opposing units. And Bolt of Tzeentch to take down tanks which is a great tool for any daemon army.
Horrors are good, you just have to thing in terms of assiting other units instead of playing by themselves
I was going to pop in and say that no one actually thinks horrors are good, and that this column was a waste of time.
But I was wrong, so keep pounding them out ==You==
Can you do Blood Claws next? People don't actually believe me when I tell them how bad they are in the new codex.
1) Yep, thinking about Daemonettes again. Bletters can benefit from cover for a 4+, Horrors cannot. T3 loses again.
2) I wouldn't call 3 S4 AP4 shots "shredding", especially if they're in cover. And if you fire upon landing, it's pie plate time.
3) If you're shooting them, you're 18" away, plenty of space for a BBQ or bakery. T3 hurts again here. Grats on killing 4 Orks, get dead. Shooting the anti-tank units since your assault units can touch tanks is the plan, enjoy scratching paint with those Bloodletters.
4) Hang on. Carnifeces and Oklutzes are good in assault? Since when? Charging be-power weapon-ed units into Horrors is about as smart as leaving your infantry in the open away from all your pie plates and flamers, what kinds of opponents are you facing?
Horrors are decent at shooting, but they don't do anything that we haven't seen before, only they're more expensive and easier to kill. They can't kill tanks, Daemons' achilles heel, and if they decide to shoot something when they land, flamers and pies destroy them.
Now, before immediately rushing to their defense, think about it. This whole thread is about Devil's Advocate. I don't think Horrors are totally worthless (only partially), but we're here to poke holes in everybody's favorite units and figure out why they're so popular. Are they actually good, or is it just internet herd mentality?
Ill start out by saying i like horrors and i have them most of the time as my main troop. i think a lot of the problem with most daemon players is there tactics and you can't blame them its a whole new way of thinking and playing rather then dumping 1/2 of your army of your army next to your opponent and hope for the best think about how the game is going to go you can see how you opponent is going to move but he can't see how you are most Daemon players don't see this in there army. more of the time i drop one lone squad of 8 horrors with an icon on a objective most of the time my opponent thinks "ha look ez kill ill take that " and will send sum thing like a Crisis suit team or sum other fast hard hitting squad. when he gets there hes going find out that horrors have a 50% chance to save all the fire they take. so the next turn i drop in 2-3 horrors of the same size and rain the Fire and Lightning of the warp on there heads they lose a power hitter and i reinforce an objective. you can do this with a squad of Pladuebearers and Letters/Nettes but its going to take more time to do so and can be counteracted do to the turn it takes of you siting there.
Last edited by GAX70; November 12th, 2009 at 03:58.
So, if your opponent doesn't know the rules and sucks you will totally win, therefore Horrors are good...
Brain am hurt.
He "mist" nothing. You said if your opponent has no idea what Horrors can do and plays in a way that gives them an advantage they will be good... yeah...
I always think its worth taking at least 1 unit of horrors just for the changeling. Either he draws alot of fire or he gets 1 important glamour off and the squad has pretty much made its points back.
Doesn't need to be a vindy shell. How about a deathspitter, or even just a frag missile or 3. Really not running after a DS is asking to have any kind of template dropped on you, it doesn't have to be the strongest template in the army. And not moving from starting formation, means they can scatter a few inches and still get the most units under the template.
Also Bathurst, who are you talking to that thinks Blood Claws are actually even good? I haven't seen anyone on LO saying they would take them over GH, and most of them wish they didn't even have to take THEM.