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Ok Im trying out which lists suit me the best and as far as the heavy support choice goes I cant make up my mind on whether to take 9 oblits or 3 defliers with the TL Lascannon upgrade. Im running currently either 2 DP of slaanesh with wings and lash and a few squads of plague marines or 2 sorcerers of slaanesh with lash inside the rhinos with the plague marines. I mean I like both of em as far pros go but one shot can take out a deflier and any high strength low ap template can drop oblits like its no bodys business, so any words of advice would be apreciated.
If you got 2 Lash Princes and your troops section full of plague marines you should go the full nine yards and invest in some obbies. The trick after that is to find anyone that want to play against you, as it is one of the most powerfull an unimaginative lists ever created.
Obbies are perfect with with the lashes as you can pick off armour with them and then switch to plasma cannons and drag enemy units in front of them. It's doable and a great way to lose friends and have nowhere to play.
... unless you only play to win and don't care how you do it, but then I just feel sorry for you.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
9 Oblitorators w/ two lashes is one of the tried and true competative CSM lists. But, you won't make many friends playing lash/blast. I'd reserve the list for 'ard boys or the like where everyone is bringing their cheese.
I run Defilers at my local shop and at local tourneys since they are a lot more fun to play for me. Don't upgrade them with lascannons though, as they can't fire their battlecannon with any other weapon in the same shooting phase. I typically keep either the flamer or autocannon and upgrade the other to another CCW.
How about two defilers and three oblitorators? The defilers will take some of the "cheese" out of the list, but you'll remain competative and FUN.
And then there was Gordao24, and it was good.
I'd consider their utility in your list first. Secondly, how well you can use them tactically.
Generally speaking , i think the Defiler is more versatile, especially so in a Vehicle heavy list: They tend to attract attention (Unwarranted attention in my opinion), lots of shot will be fired on them. Possession will ensure they'll survive , statistically, for a few turns. Long enough to get your rhinos in position. They can melee, arguably, better than Obliterators , even with the lower weapon skill. The fact that they lack leadership rolls , and are hit on the front armor will protect them in most circumstances. Comparatively, they can fleet while the oblits aren't even guaranteed a full movement due to "slow and purposeful". This also gives them a broader "threat" range, and anticipating an opponents movement, you could take the initiative and charge his troops instead.
All that being said, they (the Obliterators) are somewhat less expensive (Relative to upgrades taken on the defiler). they can use different types of weapons at a whim and can deep strike for surprise melta , plamas or flamer shots. Will this makes a difference in your list?
I'd think not, no. Most of your other units , your troops in particular, will have meltas /plasma / flamers. Rendering the multi faceted weaponry of the Obliterator redundant, yes. "Deep strikes" meltas/plasma can also be better suited to a squad of terminators: Same point range, more wounds & attacks in close combat. Does this tilt the balance in the defiler's favor? Not entirely.
The defiler is ridiculously humongous . Hard to place in cover , and once hit with "immobilized" or "weapon destroyed" it can be largely ignored in some fashion. The main armament , the Battle cannon , is aimed at low armored vehicles (somewhat) or Save 3plus infantry. Unfortunately, most your troops are already designed to tackle these type of units. Not to mention that some units can , in some ways, ignore the battle cannon all together. Better saves and the prolific instances of cover saves will dent the battle cannons effectiveness. Much of them i have in my default list: Terminators will easily overcome the damage and will provide a nifty cover save for my scouts behind them.
So, to sum up: They both have, in my opinion, significant shortcomings. However, where they can distinguish themselves is in the "Chaos" marines area of expertise, Close combat. In this, the defiler is superior: I'd add some extra close combat weapons instead of Las cannon ... if anything, and rush him at your enemy's line.
Last edited by seismic; December 15th, 2009 at 04:51.
"The things that appear are a vision of the unseen"
-Anaxagoras of Clazomenae
Thanks for the insight, Im currently playing a few games with each of em, and yes it is a competitive list, mainly because everyoneI play with makes the same cheesy army. So our group we all make the best list as possible mainly because we are all in tournaments and we can tweak each others armies. Its not fun with a cheesy list against a fluffy list because the fluffy list will be crushed and wont be able to properly critique you. But thanks again at this current moment Im leaning more towards 3 defilers. Thanks again.