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I want to know what people's experiences have been. I would say that over all that against Nids, the same set-up applies, but now we need to be more careful of the new variants and units. Especially the 'unique' characters.
Lets here it!
Admittedly, I've no experience vs. the new codex, or even really much against Tyranids at all, but I'm looking forward to reading what you all have to say. So, let's hear it!!
"If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."
No more immunity to instant death. I see alot of suicide sorcerers attempting to kill all but the greatest MC's, or at least detering them from hitting our lines. Plague marines are awesome, against anything not called an MC or Genestealer.
I played through a megabattle (outpointed by nids too) in which my Plague marines survived zoans, warriors and a hail of shots from gaunts and only lost 3 the whole match.
Create flames for a galaxy and it will be warm. Put a galaxy in flames and it will be warm for the rest of it's existence.
Plague marines are essentially the best troop choice in all of 40k IMO. Use them and use Daemon Princes, preferably Nurgle with Warptime. They usually make short work of TMC's, though you have to beware of Lash Whips and Toxin Sacs. Finally, Lash and oblits will still be a useful combination against them.
Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2
I'm just gonna repost what i did before the nid tactica was recreated.
I thought it would be a good idea to bring this thread back to life.....un-life that is.
I've only got one game against the new nids so far(many more to come) and they definatly have some new tricks the first and formost to me is that rhinos are no longer that safe(or tanks in general) Due to a couple of the new nid anti tank.
The zoentrope is finally where it should be in terms of tank killing but the range is slightly limited so they have to get up close and personal. This is an advantage that we have to take. Nid anti tank in general isnt going to last in close combat save for a couple exceptions so the best bet is do just this. This is a major weakness for nids as our vehicles can be assualted and still work while nids are stuck until one side wins. Also with zoe's 3+ invul save shooting just doesnt seem worth it any more.
The hive gaurd are also a pretty scary unit. they dont need line of site for their strength 8 weapon so they can be placed behind walls completly blocking los while still reacking havok. their high toughness also make it hard to dislodge these guys. although they have the power to keep you busy for a couple turns in cc they will be of very little threat to our cc troops and keeping them from shacking and immobilizing our tanks is alsways a good thing.
The new nid codex is really gonna restructure how people play as horde armies become par with MEQ in popularity. Fortunatly theres a little more cross over as all but the mst expensive monsters have 3+ armour save which we can easily deal with.
Any one else have some expeirence with these new and improved bugs i'll post more later.
The Decayed Ones 2500 points of nurgly goodness.
Necron- Ice Wraiths of Scy-mir 2000+
Imperial Daemon Hunters- 1500
Just a theory but i think a Chaos Lord with a Slaanesh Daemon weapon could relly shine against those new bugs. with that many attacks it's almost reliable to send him after those t6/7 monsters. If he gets one wound through their toughness (no inv save on those if what I heard is true), they're splatter. he should be pretty good at slaughtering warriors, too. Especially with his good initiative.
I played against nids a lot in recent days. Here is what I learned.
Melta- Invaluable in all lists. It will one shot Warriors and can consistently wound anything else. Two melta wounds is enough to dent a fex enough for the bolters to finish it.
Lash Sorc on Bike or with wings/jump pack- I know its a little pricey but I've never seen it to fail to earn its points back. In one game it killed a Trygon, a Mawloc, and a couple of Fexs. Use rhinos to shield if from incoming fire and your golden.
Karmoon special- Still worth every, single, tactical dreadnaught armored point. Drop 'em in they can kill a squad of warriors and a prime in one round. It actually becomes worth it to bump them up a member or two and make sure the heavy flamer is kept on.
Noise marines- Initially not my first choice against the Bugs. But I've taken them twice against the nids. The doom siren isn't really worth it (unlike against MEQ) The sonic blasters earned their points back easy. A full squad of them with sonic blasters can wipe a squad of gaunts in one turn if they haven't moved. The Blastmaster acts like mobile rocket launcher, which is nice, but generally isn't worth taking as havocs can pack more punch at that range and cost less.
Plague Marines- Give them some plasma or melta and hunt warriors. Give them flamers and destroy swarms. Additionally their staying power helps them survive anything that isn't a carnifex, trygon, or mawloc. Really the best troops in the game. Capable of doing just about anything.
Havocs- A lot of people dislike havocs but I ran a list that fielded them and did phenomenally. I ran 2 squads of 10 havocs in rhinos. one carried 4 melta guns, the other carried four flamers. I rolled up, they hopped out, and and left large dents in the advancing swarm wall. The melta guns can wipe a squad of warriors in one turn. The four flamers causes so much damage to a wall of nids its not even funny. I've kicked around the idea of 4 rocket launchers but never did, I don't like stationary units with mawlocs running around. The same is true for 4 heavy bolters. Which seems like it put out a lot of fire and stay mostly ignored. But I've never tried.
Lately I have foccused on some points that are quite useful against the tyranids and here is some advice on the units I think that are usefull:
Noise marines with noise blasters: First of all, it has lately been my favorite cult unit and against the nids they still where my favorite. They can kill so many small bugs before they hit the line. Zoanthropes are also dead if they wander in line of sight of them. And because of the higher I value, they can strike before warriors, which is quite nice if they have a bone sword.
Defilers: Battle cannons are the bane to warriors and hordes of gaunts. Also the trygon and mawlock aren't happy either, as there base is huge and almost impossible to miss them. One tip, don't bother charging with defilers against MC, they probably die before dealing damage. If you are afraid of MC charging you, hide in terrain, because you can strike first then and probably deal 2 wounds before you die. You can also use the defiler as a snare unit against 30 gaunts. There are far enough gaunts to completly surround you, so there is no more room for a MC to save them.
Plaque marines (no way) : For quite obvious reasons.
Obliterators (no way again): They still have all the weapons for the job. Deep striking is a good idea. If your lucky, you can place them in some good spots. Twin-linked heavy flamer is just evil against gaunts. If you get enough warriors under the template, they won't like it too. MC's still die to Plasma and never forget, they have power fists in close combat.
Khorne bezerkers: Charge gaunts: They all die horribly. Charge warriors: They die horribly. Charge flyrant: It dies (less horrible). Somehow, everytime I charge some nids, they die. Only problem, they don't always charge, in which case, the bezerkers will die if he get's enough creatures in. Genestealers are still evil, so stick in cover and just pistol them instead. If they charge, you strike first.
Thousand sons: First I thought they would suck hard against nids. But then I remembered that the sorcerer has a force weapon. To bad every creature that can be insta-killed have all shadows in the warp. But it does work. Combined with the 4+ Inv. save of your "ritinue", the sorcerer lives long enough to kill almost every MC, it only takes some time as he needs to roll a 6 to wound them. And on the shooting, they can hurt against most MC outside of cover and tyranid warriors outside of cover are out of luck too.
Karmoon special: Build mine unit a week ago and I already love them. Against nids no exception, but keep in mind which unit you want to kill with them. If it's warriors your after, then take melta's. If it's MC your after, then take plasma. Personaly, I would go for plasma, as they are usefull against more units. Also if you have points to spare, give two power fists, maybe even icon of Tzeentch.
Slaanesh chaos lord with DW: It's not the best option ever if you ask me, but if you're feeling lucky, it will take out so many units. I haven't tried him out yet, but I think it will deffinitly funny. But even if it's a funny ability, I still think that a deamon prince will do a beter job.
Deamon prince: Give him mark of Tzeentch and warptime amd you have a strong MC hunter. Give him Mark of Nurgle and nurgle rot and the horde will die in front of him. Lash of submission is always usefull, especialy because the nids don't have transports to avoid it. One problem: shadows in the warp, it can sometimes realy ruin your day. Even without Nurgle rot, you can still kill gaunts on your own, but it will take him the whole match to do so.
Outflanking Chosen: Only used once...with 5 flamers... I think you can geuss what happend.
Giving them diffrent wargear changes there purpose. Just take 5 man squad in a rhino, give them 5 times the same special weapon, kill one unit and then you can say farwell against these assassins, as we will focces on them with all his might so he won't lose another squad. But in the end, they probably kill a unit as much points as the where them self. Maybe they will be more usefull with more members, but I generealy don't have the points to do that.
Now on some points for nasty tyranid units and powers:
Paroxysm: I HATE IT,if there is one power in that codex I hate, it is this one. Especialy with hormagaunts. Because of this power, you will only hit gaunts on 5+ instead of 3+, which realy hurt you. And gaunts hit you on a 3+ instead of 4+ and combined with scything talons, they realy hit hard. Lucky, only hive tyrants can get it. If you ever see a hive tyrant with this power, KILL IT, seriously.
Mysetic spore: One thing: DON'T CHARGE IT, unless you can make absolutly sure you kill it before it can attack back. For some reason, spores are also MC, even so serious close combat stats. Losing 2 marines too a spore in close combat is just realy sad.
Trygon: They have a lot of wounds and they need it. Never shoot to much on this creature, unless the rest of the swarm is still on a safe distance. It's a big, scary model and has close combat stats too match, but don't waste to much on it (so don't desperatly bolter it too death) as you need also to shoot on the other creatures that are mostly more scarier than the trygon.
Zoanthropes: They are evil, don't bother brining a land raider if he field more than one zoanthrope. Luckily, they can't fire that far, so keep that in mind.
Hive guard: They realy mess up your transports and you can't do a thing about it. Just except it and get over it, you still have more left. They are quite bothersome to kill, because they can hide everywhere and still kill tanks. Also beware for you plaque marines, as they will not get a FNP save.
Gargoyles: They are cheap and mostly will come in great numbers. They are realy bothersome and I can't stand the fact that they are far more beter than a termagaunt for just one point (yes, I know they can't cap objectives, but they still can deny yours). Keep in mind that they are fast and aren't realy bad in close combat.
Harpy: Can realy mess you up in close combat by halving your initiative. He is realy fragile, so make use of that. Bolters realy bring him down fast. If you have a defiler(or dreadnought) close by, you can insta-kill it in close combat, but also keep in mind, it is a MC, so it can hurt you back.
Heavy-venom cannon: If he has one, make sure you don't blob up your plaque marines, because an lucky hit will cost you dearly.
Mawlock: I don't realy think it's that scary. If he has one, make sure your marines aren't packed together. If you have shots to spare, you can fire on this one, but he has only a low priority. Also, if he happens to scatter on his own models, those will take hits too, don't forget that.
Broodlords: They come with a anoying power that can stop your power fist (or other special weapon) from attacking. If that player is smart, he will combine this one with a MC. He makes sure your power fist can't attack and the MC will finish the rest. Also he doesn't have a power weapon anymore, don't forget it.
As far on tactics: Try to keep your units in cover, because nids almost don't have any grenades. Soften up any big squads of gaunts, but never finish them off shooting unless there isn't something beter to shoot. Mostly you can kill the remaining gaunts (about 15 or less) in close combat and if your lucky, he also has a other MC in that fight, because you'll probably win combat and the MC needs to take saves and maybe take an extra wound. Still kill genestealers if you see them. If you see MC's with regenerate, kill them in one round if you can (but don't over do it by firing every bolter on it you have), that way his power was just a waste of points. If you can, park two rhino's next to a squad, that way if a big unit charges you, it can't surround you and you get less attacks against you. If he has outflanking genestealers, park a rhino next to a squad so if the stealers come from that direction, they can only charge the rhino (doesn't always work with one rhino though, as he van move around it too, but with multiply, it does work). I also tend to give my opponent the first turn for three reasons: First, they need to deploy there army. Against nids, you can try to avoid some units for quite some time. Units you can avoid: Zoanthropes, walking hive tyrands, walking tyranid warriors , walking cc carnifexes. The other reason is, my opponent will move first. That way he will walk forward with his horde, making sure I can rapid fire from the first turn (I play quite agresive). But when it's his turn, he will charge me, but if you deploy your units carefully, only one unit (the plaque gaurd) will get in combat, without getting ripped appart. Last reason, I just want the last turn. The last turn is always the most important and deccisive one, grabbing the last objectives or getting your last kill points you need for you victory, all without the need to think what your opponent will do next.
Hope it helps,
Thanks Yggdrasil, very help actually.
Thousand Sons, never considered them.\
What do you mean though, by 'no way' for nurgle marines