Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm just getting started so I grudgingly accept that I still have a lot to learn
Every list seems to use the Daemon Prince as prime HQ choice, I prefer using a Chaos Lord, typically with MoS then have him with a Daemon Weapon due to the unrivaled power of a Blissgiver's kill on a wound
Any and all comments welcome
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
The Chaos Lord is more or less just an upgrade for a unit, because he can't function well on his own. But these units usually are already good enough themselves, and the Lord usually performs nothing they could not accomplish as well. What the Daemon Prince gives you for a few points more is much better: he can be a very potent unit of his very own and thus add more to your army than enabling some already killy unit to be even killier. Moreoever, the Daemon Prince can be a psyker and thus add entirely new qualitities to your army.
The CSM player in my gaming group liked his lord and always used him - in various configurations. We -as his opponents- liked that. Now he switched to Daemon Prince. He is happier now, and we don't like it anymore...
Its all about situational things. The Prince is generally a far better choice. Which in my opinion is kinda cool because it gives us a little bit more of a crowbar separation from our loyalist brethren. But this is what I've noticed about Daemon Princes and Chaos Lords.
A daemon prince is a generalist unit. People like it because it can accomplish anything at fairly little expense. However it cannot do somethings as efficiently as a Lord or Sorcerer. My go to example is MC/multi-wound enemy hunting. A Lord or Sorc of slaanesh has unrivaled ability to do this. So if your army is having difficulties with enemies like that then use one of these. An unmarked or chaos undivided lord on a bike with a daemon weapon is meat grinder for anything that isn't specifically designed to fight in close combat. It can be fielded by itself and it can mow down enemy units itself but not draw any fire because of terrain or shielding it with rhinos. Give it a few biker bodyguards give them melta and you have a unit which is capable of doing anything you need them to do. If you know you are going to be playing a defensive game (IE in campaign or in set tournament scenario) then the Lord or Sorc is a better choice becuase they have uses that don't involve ramming them down the enemies throat like you have to use a Prince for.
Ultimately however I feel like Lords make a unit that works well in synergy with a daemon prince. I like putting my slaaneshi lord in a LR with a bunch of berzerkers. The prince will draw most of the fire as it is a clear and immediate threat that can be killed, whereas the land raider can't frequently be stopped or slowed down unless all the enemy fire comes down on it. This is true of the prince as well. The enemy looses no matter what they pick because by turn 2-3 they are going to have a big problem on their hands either way.
Lords are okay if tooled up right the problem is that daemon princes are just plain better. One thing about the lords is that they are practically useless and easily ignored unless given a bike / wings, if you do give them a bike / wings then you have to give them a body guard of bikers / raptors or they get killed to easily by ranged weapons. The problem here is that in the current edition bikers and raptors are less effective than most of our troops choices.
So not only is it that the daemon prince is more effective than the lord but that our scoring units are more effective than the body guards you would have to buy for the lord.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!
I survived LO Chat thanks to: Karmoon, Rabbit, Process, Tossy and Meish.
I have seen most of the threads lately about the effectiveness of the Lords, and most people do agree that point for point the DP is more effective. I still like my lords tho because I feel that it can really give some extra power to a unit that may normaly be lacking in cc. The main thing i have been looking at lately is my Plegue Marines. I will but a lord in with the PM with a rhino, the rhino get them to the combat nice and quick, the majority high servivability of the PM makes the Lord seem to last a lot longer and he brings the higher Initative to the combat that the PM are lacking.
So yes as Red said he is more of an upgrade to a unit then a unit by himself like the Deamon Prince is.
Lords are still very viable, but they are more of a niche unit then a Daemon Prince, which is why I think you see a much bigger prefference for the Prince.
Princes are good against just about anything in assault, but they shine the most vs tanks thanks to thier MC status. They can be a little squishy though, since thier best save is a 3+ and they can't hide very well even with wings. They also lack assault grenades, which can make some assaults a risky option. Immunity to Instant Death does help though.
Lords are killier then Princes in assault vs troops for the points spent as they tend to have a lot more attacks with some nice extra effects that don't rely on a psychic test. They can have either grenades, or a 2+ armor save. They can hang with a unit to insure they live long enough to reach assault more easily then a prince. Especially if that retinue is plague marines.
Basically, Lords can give you a great meatgrinder boost. If you don't have any berzerkers in the list, this can be quite handy. Especially with 5th edition's focus on the importance of those nice squishy troop units that Lords excell at killing even more then Princes.
Princes are great if you're not sure what to get because they can still do a decent job at just about anything. Sorcerers do some things better, Lords do some things better, but the Prince is a great all-rounder choice, and I believe that's the real root of it's popularity. It's basically the default option.
My apologies for the short answer before, life happens.
Unfortunately I don't have any grand revelations to add. The others have said what I already believe, for the most part, a Daemon Prince is the only super cost effective HQ we've got (please,I speak in generality, let's keep specific HQ configuration rebuttles to a minimum). The Lords can sometimes rival their attack output, but often compromise themselves in other attributes. Lords can be good, and I think they are really cool fluff-wise, but for a competitive game...
...Leave the others at home (aside from perhaps a Lash Sorc. if you're a fan) - and bring along the Daemon Prince.
Last edited by hotspike18; February 10th, 2010 at 03:41.
"If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."
It's essentially cost-effectiveness. A Chaos Lord with terminator armor, a Daemon Weapon and Combi melta (how i use mine) costs 150 points. A Daemon Prince with Wings and Warptime is 155 points. However, in order to use that lord effectively, you need a land raider with a twin-linked bolter and daemonic possession (245 points), and four terminators with at MINIMUM a power fist and a heavy flamer (135 points minimum.). A daemon prince requires nothing else to be effective. Additionally, the lord is relegated to killing infantry, except when he uses his one combi-melta shot. A Daemon Prince can do it all with few drops in effectiveness.
That's why a Daemon Prince is better than a Chaos Lord.
How Did This Get Here I Am Not Good With Computer
Thank you all for the input, its a big help
That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
On cost-effectiveness, I'd agree a termie lord is generally not worth the effort. We just don't have a good cheap delivery system for termie melee might. If you're going that route, I say go whole hog and take Abbadon instead.
I will say, however, that a lord can most certainly be used competitively. It's just not as cut-and-paste simple as using a DP. There are cost-effective configs and tactics, but they'll frequently depend on your army composition as to wether or not they'll perform up to par for you. A DP is always at least a decent choice for almost anything but a foot-slogging army.