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I finally got around to compiling all ==My== Daemonic experience and know-how into a fun and (hopefully) informative guide to give new players a good start and old vets maybe some new perspectives (or something to grumble about).
Here's the link over to ==My== blog where it's all covered. I've got units reviews by FOC slot as well as a bit on deployment and waves with a couple army lists thrown in for funsies. Also, please note I may use some naughty language, but only if it's important (or really amusing).
Give it a good read if you'd be so kind and let ==Me== know what you think, either here or on the blog.
Great job! That's a great general guide for Daemons.
There are only 3 things I disagree with (and you probably know what they are already):
1. 2-3 Bloodcrushers are a much better investment than a Herald of Khorne.
2. Bloodcrushers are about area denial. They're tough enough to stand up to light shooting and they can't be instant killed by anti-armor and ordnance. They're the really tough, strong, and cheap unit that stands in front of your army and dares people to come closer. If they die quickly, who cares? They're dirt cheap.
3. I love pink horrors. I know you don't feel the same way, but I've never regretted taking them, and they've won me too many games to think otherwise. I'll agree that in large groups they underperform for their cost, and they're too fragile to rely on solely for objective grabbing (2 units of 5-8 plaguebearers are a must have for every army), but 5 pink horrors w/bolt only costs 95 points, and it can do virtually anything. It can shoot up infantry, take down vehicles/monstrous creatures, claim objectives, harass, and even last a while in the assault, thanks to a 4+ invulnerable save. I love these guys.
Thanks for your support
1) Of course, I hope I managed to cover that. You get a better deal with 2 crushers and fury/musician for wound shenanigans.
2) I hit on that in the mono-Khorne list. Folks get the idea that Bloodcrushers can reach out and beat face, they really don't. I'd only recommend them if you went full on and took loads of them to cast a wide net across the board.
3) Agree to disagree then, I think Horrors are made of suck
See, and I prefer just tossing a handful of PBs on objectives, freeing up points to spend on Fiends, Hounds, Heralds, GDs, DPs, and Grinders to take the fight to the enemy and keep them occupied away from objectives. I'm just not impressed by 5 T3 dudes, a bunch of bolter shots and a BS3 bolt.
On that I agree but I like the invincible 4+... though I haven't played against Daemon hunters or demon hunters... maybe in those games I'd prefer the PBs... I guess it's contextual also since I play most of my games in teams so I presume it affects my personal preferences... on another note I forgot to say that you did an amazing job writing all that...
Rep on that
The 4++ is pretty handy if there are objectives in the open, but T3 is simply too fragile and almost negates the usefulness of it. Bloodletters, renowned for their fragility 'round these parts, are just as durable as Horrors against S4 and last longer against S3 and below. Against S5 the difference is marginally in favor of Horrors, and at S6 and up Horrors get tougher. So, any heavy weapons sunk into Horrors are wasted, but basic weaponry still shreds them thanks to T3. 4+ cover isn't that hard to get either, so against everything but flamers and the like most units can get a 4+ on their own.
As far as damage output is concerned, Horrors have BS3 bolters. S4 is meh, AP4 is cool but cover is so prevalent. They will kill basic infantry, but so does everything else in the book (Fiends, Hounds, Grinders, etc). Horrors would be handy in almost any other army, but they just don't have a role in the Daemon army that isn't filled by another, more versatile unit.
The reason I disagree is because you can't take any of those things (fiends, hounds, grinders) as troop choices. With 5th edition rules, you really can't be competitive unless you take 4-6 scoring troop choices in every army.
As you mentioned, quite correctly, plaguebearers are awesome at claiming objectives, but they aren't really that good at anything else. They're too slow and get too few attacks. Nurglings are more useful, but can't claim objectives. Bloodletters get shot up pretty easily, and don't have grenades. Daemonettes have the grenades, but get shot up even more easily than...well...just about anything else in the codex.
That leaves us with Pink Horrors. They're very versatile, being useful against both infantry and armor, and can claim objectives. Yes, they're expensive, and no, I probably wouldn't use them if they weren't scoring troops, but they are scoring troops, so I use them.
As you said, we'll probably have to agree to disagree here. I just wanted to speak up because I didn't feel the traditional 'fiends are better' argument really works here, since we're talking about a scoring troop.
Yes, Troops are important, which is why I find it difficult to look past Plaguebearers. 5 are plenty to cap an objective, they're ludicrously tough and insanely cheap to boot.
Horrors don't bring a lot to the table considering how much they cost. T3 is a killer, bolters are bolters, and 1 BS3 bolt isn't exactly versatile. I can see use for 1 unit including the Changeling for lols, but I'd rather save points on PBs as superior cappers and spend more on stuff that's actually versatile and killy, like Fiends.
Now on that comes a totaly other mather, the price for the models... I think it is a major factor in the units people will take, in a way some people can spend lots but fiends are expensive per unit so if you take PB and Fiends... you are in a situation where you pay more for your army that is useful to its fullest only in an objective game...
I'd say this is also a determining factor don't you guys agree?