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Ok... I am new to CSM (and relatively new to 40K in general - I'm also an inexperienced IG player) and have read up a bit.. but there are some areas I could use some help with. I got a great deal on an army (2000 pts ish) that I couldn't pass up, but I'm in Iraq right now, so this is a pretty close estimate of what i got:
Lord in Term Armour
40x CSM (give or take)
20x Plague Marines
10x Noise Marines
5x Possessed = garbage
1x Landraider (which i just picked up)
I think that's it... but it leaves a lot of options, but I'm looking to pick up a few more models and go in a direction with theme (army is mainly primed). Lessons learned in the few friendly games I've played with them so far:
- My 10 Plague Maries got their Rhino popped turn 1 by a basalisk and proceeded to footslog across the board taking mass lasgun, demolisher, battlecannon, and lascannon fire only to lose like 2... melta the demolisher, and a turn later start tearing through 30 or so guardsmen in CC... so i went to the store and bought 10 more.
- Battlecannons hurt bunched up Bezerkers, Raptors, and my Defiler
- Don't Deepstrike Obliterators
- Don't take Abbadon on foot
- Daemon Prince minus DS mishaps are downright nasty in CC
I'd like to make a CC-heavy army as guard is the opposite. Khorne is the obvious way to do this... are there other alternatives? I read something about maybe MoS?
How do I equip my Terminators for CC? I tried lightning claws on all of them and they really never made it into CC. Do you mix weapons in the unit?
I read and re-read the rules for "Lash of Submission"... I read the FAQ.. I understand the spell... I feel dirty when I use it... is this normal?
Which units should I *not* deepstrike? Obliterators being one.
How do I equip Defilers for CC... I hear they rock in this fashion.
Is the "ML Dread" considered cheesy due to the frag/krak choice firing on your own troops?
Is it generally better to take cult marines over CSM w/ icon?
Okay.. sorry.. lots of questions, but since I played with Chaos, I've pretty much forgotten about my IG because of the destructive power of the dark gods.
Thanks in advance for the help!
Well for CC heavy you wanna have Berzerkers, either in Rhinos or a Land Raider.
The Termies work best for CC with Lightning Claws and Mark of Khorne, but you wanna place them in the Land Raider then. Really really killy unit, but really expensive as well..
You could run them as a suicide unit that deepstikes as a 3-man unit with Combi Melta.
Or have a 5 man unit with Heavy Flamer and 2 Plasma or 2 Melta and Power fist, Chain fist...
Lash can be really dirty, but lots of fun, run 1 winged DP and one winged Sorc with it and Oblis, Defilers or Vindicators for Pie plates to finish off the nicely in a circle arranged enemy squad.
Defilers work nicely with 1 extra CCW and then you still have the battle cannon, but they draw looots of fire and if you only field one the cannon or the defiler will die quickly imo...
I personally dont like the Chaos Dreads much but there are lots of people who run them with ML and Assault Cannon (not sure about this part).
Well with the Cult vs Icon.. a regular Squad in a rhino with IoCG, Powerfist and melta is really nice. Plague marines are considered one of the best units in 40k since they are so tough and able to soak up lots of enemy fire and killy with the 2 plasma guns. I personally like and play a Thousand Sons list since they have AP3 weapons, but they are considered a point sink, but they are cool fluff and model wise.
Possesed can be really nice with outflanking and Meltas to pop enemy armour..
Try to build a list that you think you could like and post in in the army list part here..
+ We are changer, we are danger // Fallen angels, yet stranger +
+ WIP CSM & DH Exorcists in the making +
Lash of Submission is great fun. Double Lash is downright hilarious. Ally this to an assault by a set of Terminators (preferably Champions) with the Mark of Slaanesh, a few pairs of Lightning Claws and a powerfist or two and you have one seriously nasty combat unit with a higher initiative than most MEq stuff, or who will go at the same time as most MEq HQs. It's not pretty, but it *is* fun.
On the other hand: Mark of Khorne with Termie Champions armed as above is just downright evil incarnate.The cult marines are more expensive points-wise. It would be best to have a really close look at what each Cult has to offer, then compare to the standard CSM Troops unit with the icon and see which actually is better for the points and for what you want the unit to do/be able to do.Is it generally better to take cult marines over CSM w/ icon?
I play Emperor's Children, so I am pretty much Noise Marines and Icon of Slaanesh all the way, but that is because I also play Space Wolves and Tau. EC allow me to field both styles of these armies in one go: the CC ability of the Wolves through the Termies, Lucius and the Chosen, and the firepower of the Tau through the Noise Marines' sonic weaponry. That's my style of play, and playstyle can determine what sort of army you will end up with.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"
Generally I would say Cult Troops over CSM w/Icon, mainly because the cult troops also usually have an extra ability built onto them such as Furious Charge on Berzerkers or Feel No Pain on Plague Marines, which you unfortunately can't get with an Icon. For CSM, I would run them with an Icon of Chaos Glory if you're going to throw one onto them.
World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7
Thanks! I appreciate the help. What's the best CC build for a defiler? Extra CC weapon? Bring the flamer?
Take two dread close combat weapons. The flamer is too situational and relies on good positioning to get a few models covered whereas you want as many str 10 hits as possible to compensate for the low WS. Pretty much anything that gets hit = something dead, vehicles included.
Also if you have the room to shoot and still assault, a point blank battlecannon blast is just as good