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So I don't know if any of you guys have read one of the newer Black Library books called Soul Hunter, but basically it portrays the nightlords as a shadow of their former self but basically a legion which resists chaos. Instead they are basically marines who fight against the empire, but not chaos marines. So anyway, I was thinking of portraying this on the tabletop, going with my rule of not building a 40k army without good fluff and background. So is a no to low demonic army like this possible while being atleast able to stand its own (I'm not looking to blow out tournies or anything, just dont want to be tabled every game) or should I maybe look to normal marines for something like this. I'm familiar with the marines codex but have no clue about CSM. Also, with CSM it's easier to forgo squad integrity which was all too apparent in the book that squad integrity was completely shattered.
If you're interested in Night Lords, you might want to check out a book by Simon Spurrier (I think I have his name right) called 'Lord of the Night'
POSSIBLE SPOILERS (Although I'll attempt not to be too specific)
It's a pretty decent read, I thought, and gives an interesting portrayal of the Night Lords. In the book, there are seemingly two sides to the chapter - one side that has resisted the call of chaos, and one side that has completely embraced it in order to enhance the terror and fear they instil. Either way, the Night Lords are traditionally a legion that relies on fast, brutal assaults and hence uses a lot of raptors (like assault marines, only Chaosier)
So you could build the focused army that just uses chaos as another weapon in their arsenal, or build an army that revels in the fear and terror chaos brings, one that has given itself over to chaotic gifts and mutations.
Bear in mind when reading this that I don't know that much about the latest Chaos Codex, and haven't read Soul Hunter. Is it worth biking up such a book, while we're at it? I do like me some Night Lords stories, but not if they've ruined them...
Well I figured raptors and such might be one way to go, but I was hoping for a possiblity of an infiltration or scouting based army since I already have my all-assault pre heresy World Eaters (BA rules). I kinda wanted to forgoe assaults if I could.
As for the type of army, I absolutely loved the sort of stoic concept of the Night Lords where they did not embrace chaos and resisted its pull. Everyone shuns them and hates them, both their brethren and the imperium but they keep on fighting the fight they believe in. However they basically have very little in the ways of armor and supplies. I thought scouts maybe, but it really doesn't fit the fluff. I'm really almost looking for a shattered company sort of army. Poor unit composition, incomplete support aspects, limited weapons. The trick is limiting the amount of chaos influence. There can be some, but not very much at all. It'll be tough to make it work on the tabletop, but with some good painting and some minor conversions to get across dents, battering and wear, it should come out to look pretty good and cohesive and really get the theme across.
As for Soul Hunter, I enjoyed it greatly and it definitely embraces the side of those who resist the call of chaos. It gives some great insights into the view of heretics looking back at the heresy from the 41st millennium and how many chaos marines function without the supply worlds of the imperium. If anything is lacking, the fear causing aspects of the Night Lords aren't as prominent. While they are expressed and discussed, it isn't actually portrayed in first person nearly as much as one would think. Without spoiling much I'd definitely recommend it, but I can't be sure it would be for everyone. I definitely don't think they've ruined the lore, but it is exploring a different side of the Night Lords than one would think. I loved the book though.
To be honest, I don't see a Night Lords list fairing very well with the current CSM dex, I could suggest to you to use the Blood Angels dex for rules and just use CSM models (might not be tournament legal, but in a friendly match I don't think to many people will complain so long as they know what is what). It may not be the most favorable option, but I see it working out a whole lot better. Just fluff things around, change names and do your best to have models looking "appropriate".
I know you said you used the BA dex for your World Eaters, but really, Night Lords are traditionally more CC oriented than they are for firefights. A possible solution might be to try using Space Wolves for one of them. I have played around with the SW dex with my World Eaters, works pretty well in just for fun type games. I don't see it translating to the Night Lords terribly well...
Lord of Night is also a very good book IMO.
I agree that our current codex really doesn't cater to Legions other than Death Guard, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons or Black Legion, but I wouldn't start jumping to other codices and calling them Chaos. It's really unfair to use other codices and call them Chaos as our book is still playable and not a complete waste of time to use. I know the Night Lords used jump infantry as their primary troops choice, but just use them as they are used in the book, it may not be competetive, but it will definately be a fun, friendly army.
World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7
I agree about not using other dex's for a night lords army. And as sad as it is, in the 4th ed dex, a night lords army would be pretty crappy. Raptors just are not worth their points, and you'd have to bring a lot if you wanted a fluffy force.
the current codex does the black legion really well. but does not do as well for some of the tactics of our other legions. in the space marine codex it talks of using their rules for traitor legions and i see no good reason why we could not use the blood angel and/or space marine to represent some of the chaos legions, especially if the rules fit the fluff we love
To be fair, you can use whatever codex you want and call them a completely different army, so long as your opponent agrees. I just find it a little unfair as your opponent is more than likely going to be using the codex that is written for their army to play their army, and not liking the codex that is written for your own army so you use a "better" one to make yourself feel better about your army is kind of one sided to me. Plus, you can't use it in a competetive setting, and in a casual setting it doesn't matter how powerful your army is, so long as you have fun playing with it.
Again though, this is just my opinion, personally if someone told me they are using the new Blood Angels book for their Khorne army I wouldn't allow it, but if your opponent says it's cool with them then by all means.
World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7
Well for the different dexes for certain armies, I see your point, but atleast for pre-heresy, it's impossible to accurately convey the fluff on the tabletop without using a SM list. Frankly my Pre-heresy world eaters are completely non-competitive and I only use the BA rules so I can have all assaults. It's basically just a frothing screaming horde that sprints at the enemy and sees what it can kill. I was actually fine using the old crappy BA codex, I just wanted the all assaults, I really don't care much past that.
As for the Night Lords, I'm leaning towards CSM. I think I can use chosen and have them infiltrating to give that stealth feel, along with a solid unit of Termies as that goes with the fluff as well. Then some raptors and some rhino mounted tacticals and I think it's on it's way to having a decent base to build on. Bikes would be cool but I'm pretty sure they dont fit the cannon right? Anyway, in order to translate to the TT I'm going to allow weapon options, however most chaos warbands are very lacking in supplies and equipment, but to compete you really do need a few guns and special weapons. So yea, thoughts?
Hmm. I'm not sure on the bikes either, I have a vague recollection of them being 'encouraged' for a Night Lords army to get the fast attack feel going, but I've never been a fan of bikes so may just have ignored them. Infiltrating Chosen and a hard-hitting block of Terminators certainly fits, the rest of your suggestions sound fine too. I guess you have to find a balance somewhere between taking special weapons while similarly implying your force is somewhat underequipped - maybe try and hunt down some older weapons from previous releases of models or something, so they look like the only reason they have their fancy weapons is because they've had them for aeons and have managed to keep them operational. Or something like that.