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I don't have anyone I know who plays Chaos Space Marines and I do not have the codex. I have some questions that I hope some of you can answer about them. I just started 40K about 8 months ago and I have just over 2000 points of Chaos Daemons. I have some Necrons (1000 points); mostly all of them were given to me, but they are (in my opinion) broken until a new codex comes out. I was thinking of starting a new army and I want to know how close CSM are to Chaos Daemons. That is to say, what Daemon models are used (usually as summoned monsters I think) as well in a CSM army? I figured since money is tight, if I could overlap the two armies, it would save me some cash.
The other thing is, how well do you like CSM army? I usually play against the Guard, Space Marines, Orks and Blood Angels. Any wisdom you wish to part with?
In a chaos army, you can take three daemon units. First, is the Demon Prince. Best HQ for the Chaos, mostly. One is called a "greater Demon" which you just use as any Demon really, which is an additional HQ, but when it comes from reserve it essentially comes out a champion. Then you have lesser daemons, which are quite fun. Can only Deep strike by an icon, but, you can assault after deep striking with summoned daemons, so thats quite fun. You could probably use a soul grinder as counts as defiler, depending on your opponent of course. THen you just need the tanks + marines.
I don't think CSM play that closely to Daemons at all. For one, you've got a lot more standard shooting with all your bolters. CSM also benefit from a power armor save, which is lacking in the Daemons codex, so your troops tend to be a bit more resilient vs small arms fire and the like.
Obviously deployment is a huge difference as well. CSM depend more on Rhino transports than DS'ing (although a few DS units can be a benefit).
As you can imagine, there is quite some overlap with the models, though. You'll be able to use your DPs, and standard daemon models (as lesser daemons with CSM - doesn't matter which variety of daemon you use). Greater daemons can be used, but they're a little less well loved in competitive environments. Though I haven't collected many daemons for my CSM, I still think about starting a daemon army one day.
If you haven't played any other power armor armies, you'll probably enjoy CSM as a breath of fresh air. They have their faults, and units that aren't up to par with some other, newer stuff (since they were one of the first codices designed for 5th), but overall, they're very playable against the opponents you mentioned (though I still have a lot of trouble vs BAs).
I just want to let anyone who reads this post that is thinking of taking CSM when they already have Daemons that it was a good idea like butter and bread. You can use your Daemon troops as summons, your Daemon Prince as an HQ, your other greater Daemons as Greater Daemon summons and I use my Soul Grinder as a Defiler. No one even cares in friendly games, but I doubt it would fly in a more official tournament. I bought the Battleforce, some Terminators and a Predator and let me tell you, that is enough to field a competitive force (providing you blend in the Daemons). I'm glad I went this way.
Page 61, the summoning daemon box, it clearly states "once deployed, they cannot do anything more in the movement phase, but are free to act as normal (they can assault on the turn they enter the game)
As I found out, being able to assault in the same turn is very helpful especially if your icon bearer is in combat already. Your opponent won't see it coming.
While you *can* use some of the Chaos Daemon models in a CSM army, it should be noted that a lot of people (maybe most) don't use Daemons at all in their CSM armies, except for Daemon Princes as HQs. Basically your CSM army usually consists of Daemon Princes for HQ (or a Chaos Lord), Troops (several different types of marines), Terminators, Obliterators (heavy weapon squads in terminator armor), Havocs (Troops with heavy weps) and various vehicles. It's not often that you see Summoned Daemons in an army, though you could certainly build an army around that I suppose. The lesser Daemons are "ok" but if you want something for CC, you're typically going to take Khorne Berzerkers. They cost 8 points more a model, but they have a better save, pistols, different weapons you can choose from (making them more versatile) and most importantly, furious charge which gives them +1 Str and +1 Ini when they assault. You can use lesser daemons, but they aren't going to make up any significant portion of your army.
You can only have 1 Greater Daemon per army, and it's kind of pricey for a cc unit that only has initiative 4. Don't be fooled by the base price either. Greater Daemons come in by possessing a champion (you replace the champion with the Greater Daemon) in one of your troop units, so you're not only paying for the Greater Daemon, you're also paying for a troop that has been upgraded to a champion.
What I'm trying to say is that while there is some crossover, it's not as much as you would think. If you don't count the Daemon Prince, you're looking at, max, 2 squads of lesser daemons and 1 Greater Daemon which is only about 360 points of a 1500 point army.
Last edited by Ikky2win; October 21st, 2010 at 23:48.