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All right I'm sick of the Daemon Deep Strike rip off. Here is an entire army who deploys only by Deep Strike from the warp. You would think that they would be good at it. Fact is, unless you have an icon already on the board for a turn, you are at the mercy of a full 2d6 scatter and the mishaps that follow. Here's the rip off: More and more armies who have new a codex are becoming masters of the Deep Strike. Blood Angels have units that scatter only 1d6. Space Marines have the Legions of the Damned who re-roll scatter, the Tyranids have units that have accurate Deep Striking that reduce the Deep Strike scatter until it safely lands or how about Mawlocs' Terror From The Deep ability where it puts a big blast template down if it Deep Strikes on another unit. I'm sure there are more that I haven't found out about yet as well. It just seems to be crazy.
Ok, we aren't getting a codex any time soon. We at least have to wait in line behind the Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and the Necrons from what I hear. So, what would you do to help the Daemons level the Deep Strike playing field (if any)? Here's my thoughts:
a) Give every Daemon a Ballistic score even if they do not have a ranged weapon. When that unit Deep Strikes, subtract the Ballistic score from the scatter die. IE: A unit of Pink Horrors who Deep Strikes scatter 2d6 -3 inches.
b) Make a new unit who, when on the board will guide Deep Striking units within say 12, 18 or 24" from it reduce it's scatter roll by a die 6.
c) Give some units the ability to buy a Daemonic Gift that allows a reduction or an elimination of the Deep Strike scatter for that unit. IE: A Daemon Prince could buy a Gift called "Master of the Warp" for +10 points that eliminates Deep Strike scatter.
d) I know this won't be popular but... Allow an icon to work as soon as it is on the board for additional points.
What do you think?
But seriously, there's a great many ways to "improve" DS for daemons.
1d6 + number
2d6 use highest
3d6 add the lowest two
2d6 and assault on arrival
My favourite and fluffy-ist idea (sadly also the most involving) - When each unit DS's place a 25mm marker on the board:
- if a unit DS's >12" from all markers scatter 3d6.
- if a unit DS's <12" but and >6" from any marker scatter is 2d6.
- if a unit DS's <6" from any one marker scatter is 1d6.
- if a unit DS's >6" from all markers scatter 2d6.
- if a unit DS's <6" from at least ONE marker scatter is 1d6.
- if a unit DS's <6" from at least THREE marker no scatter.
Some of these would be ridiculously powerful and just "leveling the DS playing field" is a narrow minded position as the entire codex as a whole needs balance. In a perfect world the 2d6 scatter disadvantage is contributing to that balance.
To be honest I'm actually fine with 2d6 and the icon mechanic, even while being jealous of the DS'ing that other codexes can do. I think "rip off!!" is a bit harsh. This doesn't mean I wouldn't love something better.
I do wonder though, since 5th ed was being created/tested at the same time that Codex: CD was, did the authours know that and how the DS mechanic was going to be changed.
To be honest, it probably isn't so much as rip off, but it just feels like we are getting ripped off. I'm not saying the codex is out of balance because they are a pretty good army to use. (not like Necrons, that codex to me is broken) I think I'm touchy on this topic because I play on a smaller table (3'x5') and use a good amount of terrain. It makes Deep Striking more difficult especially with swarm armies clogging the empty spots by round 2. It just makes me mad to see other armies Deep Sriking better than the Daemon who only Deep Strike to deploy.
I wouldnt be expecting a new codex for them until 7th or so edition, or 6-7 years... But the thing that got me when I first started playing them is why cant they get a charge off when they DS in. THe whole army DS in. I find it difficult to immagine them standing around confused after they materialize here. Plus it would add to the chaotic fluff, gambling nature of the daemons. Do you play it safe and drop far away or go for it and place the model at 3-4 inches and go for the deepstrike drop charge.
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It can be annoying, but I don't think it's a problem
Daemons won Ard Boyz after all.
It can be annoying, but I don't think it's a problem.
Daemons won Ard Boyz after all.
Because most games would be effectively over by turn 2 or 3 - try playing planetstrike with a daemon 'defender' some time.Originally Posted by camarodragon
Daemons pay less for their units to compensate for getting a portion of their force shot to bits or thrown off course before they really get to fight.
Certainly a little help on landing wouldn't be a bad thing. Perhaps improved inv saves while they are still materializing, and/or one or two expensive vanguard-like units.
There is too much of a good thing though - far too many fan-dexes and update suggestions are along the lines of 'I want this and this and this and this and this and this and this...'. But how may people really want to be paying vanguard-squad prices for bloodletters, and similarly inflated costs for everything else?
Too random for you? That's what you get for trucking with chaos. ^_^
Seriously though, it's not that big of a problem as long as you don't use too many very large units, and don't deep strike too aggressively (in other words, too close to your opponent). Just always assume that you'll deepstrike at least 7in in any random direction, and you should be fine in most games.
The biggest problem I've found is in team games, where the board is all but filled, and in that case, you definitely need either smallish units, or at least 2 icons (and be prepared to deepstrike in around the center of the board on the first turn).
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
I just played the Space Marines and I rolled HORRIBLE for my Deep Striking rolls. Out of 11 units, one unit rolled a bullseye all others scattered. I had one Deep Strike mishap the thankfully misplaced the unit and 4 near misses. One scattered the full 12". Although I was mad that rolled so lousy, I actually won the fight. The unit that bullseyed was my Flamers and they took out an entire 10 man Tactical squad simply because of one good roll. Deep Striking with Daemons is a love/ hate relationship. I'd still like them to be just a bit better at it though.
If you have close combat units then deepstrike about 9" from the enemy if you feel aggressive or a bit further out for safety. Remember you can always run in the arrival turn shooting phase to give you another 1D6". If something in your army has pavine this can give you another 1D6" movement by dragging victim units towards you.
Shooty daemons like horrors can arrive further away from the enemy to prevent assault next turn but still fire.
Close in shooters like flamers can either chance their luck to arrive 3" away from an enemy squad or deepstrike behind terrain and use their jump infantry status to manouver on subsequent turns. Survival however can be an issue which is why I usually use flamers to arrive in the second wave and appear near an icon in a horror unit. Enemies advancing towards some puny horrors can get a nasty surprise from the icon.
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