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Ive been playing 40k about a year as a dark eldar player, and ive just gone and bought a chaos army as I wanted a change to fast hit and run tactics.
Ive accidently ammased close too 4000 points worth of models thanks to a friend selling me loads of boxed unused chaos dirt cheap! So I have some questions...
How do you contest objectives in a pinch? Im used to a very fast army and been able to plop onto objectives. But agianst my friends eldar im having trouble holding onto objectives when he plants a skimmer on me or locks me in CC.
Is there any good way to use chaos bikers? I fail miserably every time I use them!
And lastly, my deamon price (MOT, Warptime, winds) becomes useless against eldar thanks to the thing they can use that makes my psyker tests on 3d6, is there a better combo I can take for him that will work, or should I just use a chaos lord terminator against eldar instead?
I should also mention, ive gone for a tzentch themed army. Not all 1k sons as that would be a nightmare fluff wise, just a force who worship tzentch and have a 1k sons-esque paint theme! So id prefer no marks of khorne, etc! We only play for fun anyway, we dont like using tournament style cheesy lists, i prefer fun units
And my models, this is what ive done so far.
My chosen. I converted them from a box of dark angels veteren marines! Im pretty happy with these as I didnt want to just use normal models for an elite unit! Im also curious to see what other people use for chosen
My deamon prince, which needs its wings, left arm, and bone parts finishing, and basing.
My sorcerer, done just to see if id enjoy painting chaos!
with the psychic tests you could just make your dp with wings and MoK. no one i know has made chaos bikers work for them, they are over priced. raptors can work but are a lot of points for a non scoring unit.
Your DP is fine. They struggle vs anti-psyker stuff anyway. Keep in mind, you can always just throw them into melee against something squishy, and still get a lot out of them.
One question, though. You went from DE to Chaos to get a fast, hit and run army? Compared to them, I'd say we're nearly plodding. You do get Rhinos, but they're usually stuck after a couple turns, or exploded.
Bikes don't work well. You can go with 3 and toss meltas on a couple, but even then, they're a pricey way to deliver some meltas. CSM in Rhinos do it better.
Raptors can also work. A smallish squad can be used to hit a priority target or two, but they won't contest/back up objectives towards the end of a game very well.
Easiest route for Chaos is just to get your troops moving towards objectives. Get Rhinos in the way of anything you can (even if they're wrecks, they're still in the way). Take out as many fast/skimmer units as you can with your support, and let your troops do what they can to take objectives turns 3 - end. I struggle vs Eldar, too, so if anyone has better advice, I'd like to hear it as well.
As for your models: The Chosen are great. I've seen the robes used by a few people, and it's just a solid conversion.
I'm drooling over getting one of the new DPs done. Yours turned out quite well. Keep it going, and you should have a great looking army.
I believe he meant to say he wanted a change AWAY from a fast hit and run army.
So, I guess a couple thoughts.
There isn't really too much you can do for the Daemon Prince, usually Warptime and Tzneentch are a great combination but against the Eldar Warding Rune or whatever it's called (if he's a bud no big deal, but if not so much make sure he pays the points for it everytime). Contesting is really best done with useless stuff you won't be needing much anyway, busted up Rhinos are great for this, once they've dropped their payload you can park them on an objective you don't want to try to capture - you'd be surprised how hard they are to kill sometimes. If he's consistently knocking them down try keeping them moving and hiding til the very last moment. Also be advised that one squad can capture two objectives if they stretch their formation a little or are in a vehicle long enough (Chaos really only for Land Raiders), this can be a great way (on the last turn mostly) to capture one objective and deny another in a way your opponent will almost never predict.
Bikes are tough to use well, their cost makes them something I personally avoid. And Raptors, while a much better bargain, are sort of like less utilitarian Chaos marines inside a Rhino. They can be better, but really it's better to save the cash and buy your CSMs a Rhino (seeing as how the Rhino will give them better protection anyway). Although, for funsies, Raptors are pretty cool. Also, remember that Rhinos can block enemy units and line of sight (you know this of course) but this means that you can slow down or at least channel enemy movement, sometimes even prevent charges if you're really clever.
Hope this helps.
"If you can wait til I get home, then I swear we can make this last."
This is pretty much the same story for me as well, over 5 years of playing Dark Eldar and I just needed a break until the new DE codex comes out – got tired of facing new codices with my old one.
I too also went Tzeentch with mostly a Thousand Sons list and tried to be as fluffy as possible but the more you adhere to the fluff the more you take yourself out of being competitive. So although I try to put some Thousand Sons into the list I am pretty much happy with just calling it “Tzeentch Favored” (or Flavored).
As for the transition from the Dark Eldar, It will depend on the units you finally decide to use. The biggest change I have found is that the units (just about all of them) are more likely to not “break” to morale or leadership and thus more dependable (compared to the DE).This something that I still have to get over as I would normally treat my DE troops very carefully but with CSM’s you can put them on the table and not really fear that they will be wiped out to the man or run away off the table next turn.
What I find in similarity in strategy that is somewhat the same is the delivery of reserve troops. I was a big WWP player and enjoyed the “suddenly in your face” that a warp portal offered and you can still do something like that with CSM’s. Hello Teleporting and Summoning! What a cool way to bring in reserves with scattering and not having to pay too much for the actually ability. Sure it’s still random to reserve rolling and you cannot assault but what the CSM’s have in fire power makes up for that.
Daemons, on the other hand, can assault the turn they are summoned and that too is a very nice perk that I find that the more veteran CSM players do not utilize much. For me, playing DE has taught me how to plan my match-ups and work on timing in every game – you learn really quick how to get the most out of your less-than-optimal-units by ensuring the correct match ups and placing pressure where you need it. This has been very true with the Greater and Lesser Daemons and with icons all over the board and some similar freedom with the GD I have no problem getting my points worth. Sure, they may not be tournament worthy for casual friendly play and find them fun as well as productive.
However, I will say that I am going to switch my role of the Lesser Daemons to more of an objective camping role versus blitzing the enemy idea. LD’s really are a liability when facing marines so I would rather put my marines that are overall better equipped to deal with the enemy and just use the scoring ability of the lesser daemons to babysit in the backfield and look pretty. They are not much of threat, they are fearless and have other stats that will make them good campers (that I know will not run away from a little shooting, unlike DE). I haven’t tried it yet but soon.
The only other thing I noticed is that most of the list will hit simultaneous most of the time. I am usually used to hitting first and when I get disappointed in rolling at the same time I realize that it’s not that bad. I admit, I still really want to hit first so Slaaneshi type units are starting to call to me but that is just my Assault based experience influencing me, you can skip it and just stay “shooty” but even then you will find some need to deal with close combat eventually.
Food for thought, good luck and happy hunting!!!
"On a hunch, I melted them down and inhaled the fumes and read the dark eldar codex again, AND FOUND A BUNCH OF NEW RULES HIDDEN BEHIND THE OTHER WORDS..." [Gardeth on modelling & interpreting the DE Codex]
Ive played a couple of games now. First ones with this army, and im getting the hang of it now. Ive learnt a few things...
- Dreadnoughts are fun, except for when they plasma cannon your last troops unit on the table twice!
- 1k sons are amazing against space marines. My friends face when he realised his tactical squad wasnt getting an armor save from my bolters was priceless. Thats what he gets for not doing what I do and researching opponents armies!
- Bikes are rubbish. Used them once, and they got a single glancing melta hit on a wave serpent before getting destroyed. I wish I hadent converted a 1k sons hot rod bike now, seems pointless.
- The demon prince with warptime and mark of tzentch is amazing! It wiped out mepheston without taking a wound!
- The demon prince with warptime and mark of tzentch is not so amazing when fighting stupid elder who make you fail a lot of psychic tests killing yourself with perils of the warp
Im having a lot of fun. It will tide me over until my beloved dark eldar are finally updated! Im slowly getting around the lack of mobility, but a lot of deep striking and rhino/landraider transport is taking care of that. I also finally finished my demon prince!!