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Hello i mostly play small friendly games. but was looking to start playing more competitively with my daemons. The Khorne/Tzeentch armys have always caught my eye as powerful but im new to the army so what do i know. I was wondering what kinds of units are included in a competitive 1k list? And maybe if some of the more experienced players wouldn't mind sharing their lists and or tactics that would be great thanks.
i think in a 1k competitive match is best if daemons go all out on a single god. like pure khrone. but you could try otherwise
i only bring in tzeentch if its 1750 above. For one, if i use tzeentch, i'd bring in Kairos and at least 2 sqds of pink horrors. then fill the rest up with bloodletters & bloodcrushers. if points allow you - add a SGrinder as firemagnet or add more bloodcrushers, put Skulltaker on juggernaught together with them. IF you still have points, add in bluescribes and attach him to one of your horrors with a changling upgrade....
all my troops would have icons and also instruments for bloodletters
usually I always try to use boon of mutation, its darn fun when u're able to boon someone haha
I manage to boon abadon and his daemon prince in a single turn..... that really made my day.
Daemons work best with all gods in play. Mono-god is terrible in terms of competitive play (Khorne being the absolute worst, Slaanesh works against a few armies, Nurgle only works if you make an Epidemius list and will only work 66.67% of the time, Tzeentch is cappable against all armies but still has glaring weaknesses). Each god fills a specific role and you pretty much need all of them covered to play effectively.
Here are some basics
Upgrades are pretty much useless on non-HQ/HS (especially Instrument of Chaos, if you needed it your unit isn't doing what it suppose to do). There are only a few exceptions.
- Icons - Either 2 or 0 so that you have 1 in each wave. Should only be on Bloodcrushers and Plaguebearers. I generally don't use them though.
- The Changeling - If you have some Pink Horrors you have to take the Changeling. For 5 points you get at least the psychological effects and if it ever get's it Glamour off you instantly make it's points back
- Bloodcrushers - Giving them all of the upgrades allows you to take full advantage of wound allocation (Fury of Khorne and Instruments will still be pretty useless)
- Bolt of Change - It's one of the best options for Daemons to deal with tanks so it's good have plenty of them.
Bigger units are generally better. While MSU is tactically better in almost all cases, Daemons are fragile and will have to take a turn of enemy attacks because of deep striking. Taking a few extra bodies will generally ensure the unit sticks around to get the job done (especially if you take advantage of cover)
Take at least two of what ever Heavy Support you use. They tend to get focused down and taking duplicates ensures success through redundancy (especially for Soul Grinders, which are amazing with Phlegm and I would suggest you take two)
There are a few units to avoid. Heralds of Khorne, Heralds of Nurgle, Beasts of Nurgle, Demonettes of Slaanesh, Flesh Hounds of Khorne, Chaos Furies, and Daemon Princes of Khorne/Undivided are all bad because they either fail to do anything worthwhile or another unit does the same job better/cheaper.
Some good units that you can never go wrong in taking: Heralds of Tzeentch w/ Chariot, Fiends of Slaanesh, Bloodcrushers of Khorne, Pleaguebearers of Nurgle, two Soul Grinders with Phlegm, Daemon Prince of Tzeentch/Nurgle with plenty of upgrades (Bolt of Tzeentch; Noxious Touch and Iron Hide at least).
The most important thing for Daemons is taking total advantage of deep striking. How well you use the terrain and abuse your opponent's deployment will decided the game for you.
Last edited by CrownAxe; September 29th, 2010 at 10:01.
Good units for a 1000 point list
HQ: GUO with flies 165
Herald of Tz with chariot, legion, sorcery and bolt for 110
Elites: all good apart from beasts of nurgle
Troops: PBs are great for ressillience and objective sitting.
I like horrors because they can thin out opponents as you arrive and they can deepstrike further out.
Others are hard hitting but fragile.
Fast: I don't bother but a few screamers are ok if you face landraiders a lot. Seekers arent as good as fiends.
Heavy: If you take grinders then get 2-3 rather than a lone vehicle.
Cheap princes with MoT and bolt are a good design for 140 as are MoN, hide, nox, gaze and flies for 175. Wings are very expensive for what you get. MoS, Pavine and hide can be good at dragging opponents into assault range of your killer units.
Icons are good if you take lots of flamers or if you want to come in within the 6" security zone of the fateweaver. Otherwise I stay clear of them. Perhapse get one for general use in larger games where the table can get a little crowded.
Last edited by Mad Cat; September 29th, 2010 at 15:10.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
Not much to add. I just wanted to say that Crownaxe and Mad Cat's advice are both spot on.
I also see where Deathjoe is coming from. Although at higher point levels it definitely pays to mix gods, at lower point levels it's usually best to have a unified play style. In other words, at lower point levels, I feel that balance is less important. It's better to have everything move at the same speed, and try to overwhelm your opponent using the same strategy.
Finally, I just wanted to add that although Epidemus is fun, I've given up on him. There are just some lists you cannot beat with a pure Nurgle-Epidemus list (mainly IG leafblower, razorback spam, all skimmer Eldar, and land raider lists).
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
Tzeentch herald on chariot w/ MoS, we are legion and bolt of tzeentch
4-6 fiends with 1 unholy might
3 troop choices, 2 for fighting (letters or demonettes), 1 for camping ( horrors or bearers)
no fast attack
2 weak princes, 1 strong prince or 2 soul grinders
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
Yep, a good mix of gods will do you good. I haven't played a game with my daemons army yet as I'm still putting it together, so take this with a grain of salt. But I had the community over at Warseer help me design it. We came up with the following.
2x5 Plaguebearers w/icon
9x Horrors w/ Bolt and Changeling
1x DP w/ MoN, flies, noxious touch, iron hide, unholy strength and breath of chaos
I'd split the army in half with a squad of PB w/Icon in each group. Split the Letters as well and put the Horrors in group 1 with the flamers in group 2. The Dp goes in 2 and Skulltaker goes in 1. The idea is to get all my templates in position using an Icon to do the maximum damage and to let my Prince live as long as possible.
The prince is my heavy hitter. His job is to remove anything thats left after the first 2 turns. Theoretically he should come down in turn 2 within Range of an Icon. He'll breath a squad and the other squads will mop it up. He should be protected with Iron hide and his invuln plus toughness of a 6 so that he can charge whatever is left over and with 5 attacks, most likely hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s with re-rolls and no armor save, he should wipe some marines up. He also has a good chance to destroy any armor he gets ahold of.
Last edited by Draconis0101; October 20th, 2010 at 22:24.
with that blood letter squad sizes dont even bother taking them.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
So I should stick with 1x10 then? I was getting mixed reviews on different websites to either take a small footprint or a larger one.
The problem with smaller units of Bletters is they only have a 5+ save and seeing as they're all toting S4 Power weapons with 2 attacks base and furious charge, they are generlaly targeted first. Larger units mean greater chances for survivors, which means greater chances of running into and killing your opponent.
Horrors/PBs are ok in smaller units because they're more durable, horrors having a 4++ save and PBs having a 5++ with regen and T5.
If you take Horrors, I've seen them (and used them) used in either 5 or 10 man squads. Bolt of Change is completely up to you, I like taking it because it's option to use and while it's BS 3, it's still a chance to do some damage to vehicles. As said before, if you don't take the chageling, you are doing something wrong. 5 points is like cheating. For example: I had a brood of 2 fex with 2 brainleech worms kill an unwounded Hive Tyrant because they failed a leadership test. It won't happen often, but when it does, it is awesome and will be the best 5 points you ever spent.
Plaguebearers have one purpose: Holding objectives. Take them in squads of 5 and plop them down on an objective. I like to give them an Icon, though they won't always be in the most opportune place, it's still a safety zone. if the objective is in cover, go to ground for a 3+ cover save AND regen.
I've seen daemon princes in two forms: Cheap Tzeentch princes with Bolt and fully kitted out Nurgle monsters (Flies, Nox Touch, Wings, maybe Iron Body). The Tzeentch prince is a tough firebase and the Nurgle one is a CC fiend. use them as such.
People have mentioned the Chariot of Tzeench, and the Tzerald is another unit that's amazingly good for it's points. For 110 points, you get 5 Eternal Warrior wounds with a 4++ save, that is a jetbike, and fires Bolt of Tzeentch at the tanks AND Gaze at troops. Some people put Icons on them so you have a unit with a better position, but that's optional.
40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)