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Ok, so no matter what I try against my buddy who plays Tyranids, I can't seem to muster a victory, though usually ending in draws I have lost my fair share against him (all of those losses in my signature are to him and most of the draws). Now it's not Tyranids in general I have trouble with, every other list I've come up against I've crushed, it just seems to be his list. Here are the 2 lists we play with, I'm not asking for advice on how to change mine but how I can use mine to effectively beat him:
2x Khorne Princes with Wings
1 Dread with CC arm, heavy flamer and missle launcher
1 Land Raider w 8 Berzerkers, champ and PF
3x 8 Berzerkers with champ, pf and Rhino
2 Tyranid Primes with lash whip and bone sword (these go with Carnifex)
2 Carnifex with str6 tl guns (fires 24 shots out of these guys together)
2 Trygons w/ scything talons
1 squad of 12 Gargoyles
3 squads of Termigaunts
2x 2 Hive Guard
World Eaters: W-47 D-10 L-9
Necrons: W-19 D-3 L-2
Protectorate of Menoth: W-36 D-0 L-7
I know that this is a bit of oranges to apples, but my son had a solution to this kind of problem against Nids and he plays Space Marines (White Scars). His solution was to take more troops with melta and plasma, as many as he could take. In your case, maybe change your Dread and Landraider for more troops, rhinos and maybe a Predator? I know the extra small arms fire made a HUGE difference in my sons' game and you don't lose a lot from firepower because of the plasma and melta options. Also, if it looks like he is going to attack you, leave your troops in cover. He doesn't have grenades so he has to attack through cover (giving him initiative 1). Since Tyranids are famous for their high initiative, negating it makes a difference, plus if they attack Plague Marines, they don't get an extra attack either (blight grenades). I've seen this work more than once. Hope it helps.
I mostly play a Tyranid player myself and he takes nearly all of the victories. Mainly because he wipes me out so bad. I've only unleashed the hordes of Chaos on him a few times due to working on my SM Scout army.
However, my last game against him, I played Black Legion. My Demon prince worked out real well against his Zoanthropes and Warriors with dual Boneswords (I hate those damn things). I also found out that Tervigons are made of paper in CC. Haven't gone up against Carnis since the last codex. My friend claims that they were seriously hindered in this codex vs. the last. Flamers of course work great on the small bugs. Plasma is a beautiful thing. Also, watch out for Regen on the big bugs. Plasma is a good tool as well. However, you expressed a desire to not change your list. Be sure to support each unit with another... the more bodies your bring to a CC party, the better. When going into CC with most large beasties, be prepared to sac most of the squad just to get the PF hits in on their high toughness. Good luck mate!
I did end up winning that last one. (Thank god for being able to tear up more Kill points than he could)
If he's going to charge you, stay in cover, but essentially, shoot what can beat you in assault, and assault what survives shooting or has its weakness in assault. Finally, concentrate your attacks, if you spread your attacks between two units it could take 2 or 3 turns to deal with them, but in these turns you must face both units, but if you can destroy 1 in 1 turn then you only have to face one the next turn. Also, targetting synapse broods makes the basic creatures less of a threat.
While you have an assaulty list, his is arguably even more assaulty. That is because TMC's (Tyranid monstrous creatures) just own walkers in combat and trygons will pretty much own any of your infantry units or DP's in a straight up fight. Meanwhile his hive guards are popping rhinos and even walkers at their leisure without a care in the world. This is just a list mismatch.
The reason why your worldbearers cannot furious charge his monsters is that he's blocking you off with screening gaunt units. You hit them, wipe them out and next turn, his TMC's and genestealers charge you and take out your troops.
Short of making some changes to your list, there's not much you can do against his list. Make sure you hit him with a concentrated attack, attacking as a cohesive force instead of piecemeal. Sacrifice your walkers by sending them in against his trygons and carnifexes and then have your worldbearers come in to help.
You need more special weapons to help take out his trygons. Otherwise, you don't stand much of a chance.
Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2
Ok, Looking purely at the lists given, and not knowing how you are playing them in detail, i'd guess it's likely that you are not working your units in synergy. The temptation with an assaulty army is to charge forward screaming "Blood for the Blood God!!!".
I suggest that you need to let him come to you (as much as he wants that is) and target his shooters with your big guns. Pound his MCs with your stationary LR and mobile Defilers. Lurk your DPs ready for the counter-charge. Pick off the gargoyles/Troops if you can but don't expose yourself to his counter-charge. When his killer unit gets into assault range of your LR it's time to either move or charge with everything you have -- Hopefully you will have a decent number of DPs & Defilers, and at least one zerker squad in this fight. He can't target all these units, so you'll be able to get some good hits in. Don't be afraid to double-up both DPs against the Fexes, just to make sure you take one down each round.
btw, do your zerkers have plasma pistols? (Your only "special" weapon choice in a Khorne army.) If so these will help with a few wounds just before the crucial combat begins. If you don't have points, since i've suggested a counter-attacking strategy i'd also consider dropping a few rhinos (!) to tool up the plasma, unless you want to use the Rhinos as shields. Another alternative is a combi-weapon for the SCs. Obviously 1 Rhino is useful for mobility in objective games, but realistically, any solo unit sent out to claim flags against hordes are going to expire pretty quickly. (Not that Khorne cares from whence the Blood flows!)
There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.
Jy2 made a very solid critique of the problems you're facing. Overall, it's flat out menacing for elite builds to handle swarms in close combat. Best thing you can do is increase two things: Bolter population; special weapon population (two things Khorne struggles with )
A couple of tactical suggestions:
1) Focus on one monstrous creature at a time. A 1-wound Tervigon is as good as one with 6 wounds.
2) Rhinos are one of your best defenses against hand-to-hand swarms. Use them to cut off enemy assault lines and delay the charge as long as possible. Depending on the skirmish, you may want to have your troops fielded outside their transports. This allows your rhinos to fearlessly drive up to the enemy without concern for losing an entire zerker squad.
3) Tervigons, despite their wound capacity, are primary targets. Not only are they troop-generators, but they pretty good buffer models as well. Focus on these first with an high strength weaponry. Bottom line: Buffed up gaunts are ridiculously powerful for their cost. I think they can actually be pumped with as many as five buffs at once! (Furious Charge, FNP...)
Last edited by Rabbit; November 18th, 2010 at 15:50.
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