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I'ma start my first 40k army this year, which will be the Chaos Marines! I really like themed armies so I was considering doing a mono-god style army (in Fantasy I have Nurgle Warriors of Chaos). I was wondering if anyone could give an opinion on each of the marks when considering having an entire army marked that way. Which may be more effective, or if its even viable to attempt!
I'm so far torn between Slaanesh or Nurgle (maaaaybe Tzeentch)!
I don't have a mono god army only because I like the versatility of taking all units and any mark to help me along. I understand that some of the more popular choices are Nurgle with Plague Marines, Khorne with Khorne Berserkers and Thousand Sons of Tzeentch with (of course) Thousand Sons troops. I've never seen a Slaanesh army, but I'm sure they are out there and I couldn't rule them out. Here's how your mono army would be: Nurgle- Tough as nails and hard to kill and a bit on the expensive side. Toughness 5 makes it hard to kill with small arms fire. Plague Marines are not slow and purposeful, so a Nurgle army isn't necessarily slow. A Nurgle Daemon Prince is toughness 6 and could have Nurgles Rot. This makes him a close combat machine who is tough to kill. Khorne- this is your close combat giants. They have lots of attacks with fair close ranged firepower. Your Khorne Daemon Prince just gets an extra attack and cannot be a psyker. Tzeentch - I love and I mean love invulnerable saves especially against Space Marine type armies. The Thousand Sons have inferno bolts which rip Power Armour to shreds. Problem is, they are Slow and Purposeful. Just pop them in Rhinos to deploy them faster. Thousand Son units tend to be expensive, but strong. They have the best Psyker abilities available to Chaos. Your Daemon Prince would have a 50/50 chance of shrugging of AP3 or better weapons and would be a big time Psyker if you wanted him to be. Which way you go is up to you and only up to you. To me, a mono god just doesn't seem flexible enough for my liking, so only go mono god if you are sure you want to.
Wow, much appreciated on the analysis!
I'm assuming from checking the Codex then that a Slaanesh army would be moreso based on just getting to attack most things first?
I run a Slaanesh army, and indeed, most of the time, you do get to attack stuff first. There are further nuances with using Lash of Submission to mess with your opponent's battle-plan or set up single target units for a stomping, and the unexpected resilience of assault-optimised Noisemarines (or sonic-equipped Noisemarines as objective campers). The Slaanesh character Lucius is also pretty entertaining.
Plus pink is a very confronting colour across a table. Nobody likes to get beaten by pink space marines.
Now I really can't decide! :p
What is an assault optimized Noisemarine?
Well the cool thing about noise marines are they can be outfitted with their Noise Blasters which can be assault 2 or heavy 3 at a 24" range which is a pretty good thing. One can have the Blastmaster gun that has a 36" or 48" range. The 48" range variation is a heavy 1 BLAST that is pinning with a str 8 ap3! So Noise Marines are good, but with the Noise Blasters, these marines are 25 points each. The Blastmaster is a 40 point touch, so you are paying for what you get. As mentioned before, your Daemon Prince could be outfitted with arguably the strongest Psychic power called Lash of Submission which drags a unit out of whatever hidey-hole they are snuggled into and moves them 2d6" wherever you want them to go. When using this power, you can leave the unit in the open, away from cover, in a nice tight group ripe for template weapons or drag them closer to your Daemon Prince with wings. A Daemon Prince with wings can move 12" and assault 6" and you can move a unit 2d6", so in some cases, you can assault a unit right away. The Lash is particularly powerful when you include a Chaos sorcerer with the Lash as well as your Prince with Lash and then your ordnance makers such as a Vindicator and or the Defiler. The mark of Slaanesh tends not to be too expensive and adds 1 to your initiative. I didn't include Slaanesh in my first post because I had never heard of people using a mono-Slaanesh army, but I should have included them anyway, so I apologize for not being more complete.
Noise marines can sit back and shoot 3 shots per turn, or can fire two and assault, against many armies hitting first. Slaanesh often means you hit first, just not with the power of other units, but can instead lend a fair amount of fire power, plus lash, one of the most effective powers, allowing you to control who assaults when, and to get the most from ordnance weapons. Standard marines with this mark will often attack first but with the same ability as without. The daemon weapon is ok, I 've pressed it effectively into service against tyranid monstrous creatures, and ork warbosses as a single wound, even if it requires a 5 or 6 to wound will kill it outright. It also allows you to slay large numbers of nobs.
Khorne berzerkers are some of the best assault troops in the game, even better with furious charge. Khorne hits with lots of attacks, although the dp only gets the basic +1 attack and can't be a phsyker. You couldn't have any other phsyker if you want to stick to fluff. Standard marines with MoK have +1A so are slightly more effective in combat. The daemon weapon is my favourite, as forcing an opponent to remove handfulls of models in a single phase never fails to please me.
However neither khorne or slaanesh is more survivable than standard marines.
Nurgle is no better in assault than standard marines at dealing out damage, but +1T for the standard markmeans that it is very hard to kill them off, either in shooting or in combat, especially if you don't have many rhinos then this mark is very effective for getting your units to combat unharmed (relatively). The daemon weapon is good against high toughness foes, esp. monstous creatures. Plague marines are incredibly difficult to kill due to T5 and feel no pain, they also have blight grenades which mean enemies assaulting them don't get the +1 attack for the charge, bettering their odds of survival even further. The dp is good with T6, meaning most small arms only harm it on a 6, and even plasma weapons only harm it on a 3+. I've never been one much for nurgle's rot, as I usually play against meq, but against gaunts it could be effective.
Tzeentch allows better protection against low ap weapons, so is quite survivable. Thousand sons have the ap3 bolters, so are very effective against marines, and a 4+ inv save allows them to shrug off half of the plasma or ordnance shots that come their way so are also survivable, although not so much as nurgle against small arms. The phsykers have the ability to chooser and use an extra phsychic power, this includes DPs, so they are not only tougher against the low AP shots that usually come their way due to T5, but can also be better phsykers. I haven't used the Daemon weapon much, but it can be effective at softening up infantry before an assault.
I usually play a mix, never playing without berzerkers due to their sheer combat power, but slaanesh can also be useful in assault, whilst plague marines are near unkillable and tzeentch thousand sons are especially good against meq, with good phsykers and survivability against heavy weapons.
If you are torn between nurgle and slaanesh then depends whether you want your army to be effective in assault, with the ability to lay out lots of fire power, and lash for your ordnance, or whether you want to be very survivable, and rellying on lasting longer than your foe to win fire fights and combat.
Last edited by bliss-giver; December 29th, 2010 at 12:26.
Sry - my shorthand. Big squad ( >=8 ) , no sonics (too expensive), power weapon or power fist. Unadorned rhino to tool around in. Because these bad boys tend to strike first, the power weapon is marginally better against MEQ since the noisechamp gets an extra attack over the PF, but the PF has the advantage of flexibility - it's good against everything. 'Fearless' and their MEQ save makes them actually quite hard to scrub out in assault, so even if they lose, you almost always have a chance to reinforce them for the next assault phase.
I forgot the Doom Siren - looks good on paper (kills MEQ, no cover save!), but very expensive for a weapon you will only get to use once or twice a game.
Last edited by andrewthotep; December 23rd, 2010 at 20:02. Reason: Forgot to pack a Doom Siren.
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