Am I getting the most from my Icons? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Am I getting the most from my Icons?

    Deep Striking is a hot topic and one I hope to be better at. It occurred to me today, that perhaps I am not using the icon properly. The question is: Can a unit be only partially within the 6" of an icon and still not scatter or does the entire unit size need to be within the 6" to the icon? I've been making sure the entire unit is within 6" of the icon. But can you put your first model down within 6" of the icon and then while placing the remaining models around it, can you go outside of the 6" to make it less crowded in that safe area? Also with a Soul Grinder with a 5" footprint, can part of it be outside of the 6"?


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  3. #2
    Returning Lawman! Riptor's Avatar
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    As far as I know, so long as the central model of the group is within the 6", then the group does not scatter.

    As for the Soul Grinder, I do not use any of mine, so I am not sure, but I would hazard a guess that it just needs to be touching the 6" icon range, not fully inside it.
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  4. #3
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    use the rules covering disembarking models from transports... as far as i remember (at work = no rulebook/codex at hand) the wording is the same and you have an illustration of when models are within the 2' for transports... simply use 6' when using an icon.

    furthermore, consider whether you even should use and icon i started as daemon player when the codex came almost 3 years ago, i had 3 icons (2 in what i hoped would be primary wave and one in the second for bad wave roll) then 2 icons, one in each wave, then one icon, in what should be the primary wave and now for the last 8-9 months no icon... i like the freedom of mind it gives youas you wil allways deep strike without and never have the mental block of, if i DS here i get no scatter, but if i DS here its the most advantageous... take the risk, deep strike intelligently but where you need them and not necessarily safely... i would rather use the points on other stuff...
    it might not interest you but i like DS that way so i thought i'd voice it

  5. #4
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    I know you have a problem with deep stiking, so I won't tell you that Icons aren't worth it and just learn to deep strike better.

    The Icon takes effect when you place the the center model of the unit to determine where you want the unit to land before rolling scatter. You do not need the whole model within 6" of the icon to get the effect (just like how you measure from the front of the base for shooting, and not from the back of it). You determine if the Icon's effect before placing the rest of your unit so the icon has no further effect on how the unit is placed. The legs are are part of the hull for a Soul Grinders so you can have just the foot within 6" of the Icon for the Icon to take effect.

    However, you can't pre-measure the Icon's area of effect until after you declare where you want your unit to deep strike. This is because you can't measure anything until you declare the unit's action. Of course it's up to you and your opopnent to follow that rule (since some people read it as a beardy RAW rule). I would suggest getting good at eyeing 6"

  6. #5
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    I actually do not use icons unless I am in a really crowded game (2 on 2 game with swarm armies) or playing on a small table. I was playing on a small table at our hobby shop because there were so many people that showed up they needed to break some tables down in size. This is when the whole icon issue came up and I wondered about it. By the way, I am getting better at deep striking as I am 4 games in a row without a mishap (knock on wood). Placement, position, use of icons when needed and terrain choices have really helped me. I agree with you CrownAxe, I personally think icons are too many points and you can easily save those points by mastering the Deep Strike without them.

  7. #6
    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    I'm sure you already know this, but for those who aren't sure/aware of DS rules:
    - Only the first model in the unit is placed when you choose the location to DS.
    - Next you would measure distance between this model and the icon if there is one.
    - If not, or if you're too far away from it, you then roll to scatter the single model.
    - Once it's position is final, only then do you ever fill in the rest of the unit.

    In cases where you are near other models/terrain/table edge, you can choose which half of the outer circle to populate, which can help avoid mishaps, but only really helps if a) there is a partial outer ring and b) 1" would make a difference. This is a small point but can make the difference on a crowded table. Remember also that terrain does not cause a mishap unless it is impassable. Remember also that you only need to be 1" away from enemy models - anything else can be within 1" so long as you don't actually overlap.

    In more specific answer to your questions:
    The general rule in 5th Ed when measuring distances (except for movement) is to measure the gap in between the 2 objects/units/models involved. In this case i would say the DS model does not have to be fully within 6", but instead must just be partially within i.e. gap <= 6" .

    Interestingly, the Movement rules in the BRB state that you are allowed to measure movement distances as soon as you have declared that the unit will move, but you don't have to commit to any particular direction or range. Whilst this does not relate at all to DS, i believe it is intended to give a certain amount of tactical freedom in where units are ultimately placed, but perhaps it is simply because it is too difficult/nitpicky to regulate if the unit ended up exactly where first stated :p

    If it is indeed intended to be deliberately lenient when dealing with movement, i think the same leniency ought to be extended to DS (in relation to icons, beacons, etc). Specifically, you should be allowed to say "I'm going to DS to that icon" and be allowed to place the model anywhere within 6". Given their nature, it seems pretty difficult to miss a great psychic beacon shining out to you in the darkness...

    "Adept, lock on to the Captain's homer and deploy 1st squad in a protective position at his side."
    "Done. Energising now."
    "Whoosh!... Waaaarrrghhh!!! .... .... ...!"
    "Oh, wait, did you say homer? I thought you said large rock. Oops, my bad."

    It's really not going to happen

    (Yes i know it should be daemons but i just can't picture them standing around in the Warp discussing what they should do upon arrival. If anything it's even less likely that daemons would miss an icon as they should be drawn inexorably towards it whether they want to or not! Plus it's funnier when terminators get lost in the Warp )
    Last edited by krytie; January 27th, 2011 at 23:03. Reason: formatting
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  8. #7
    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    Really? I've always just measured six out from the icon and placed him down. No one has ever corrected me, even when i leave my local area to play.

    Is there page references I can look up to confirm that i have to guess that im within 6" of my icon, then measure and see if i was within, or scatter?

    Ive never seen anyone have to place first for scattering by items, telport homer, icons for csm, etc.
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  9. #8
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericismyname View Post
    Really? I've always just measured six out from the icon and placed him down. No one has ever corrected me, even when i leave my local area to play.

    Is there page references I can look up to confirm that i have to guess that im within 6" of my icon, then measure and see if i was within, or scatter?

    Ive never seen anyone have to place first for scattering by items, telport homer, icons for csm, etc.
    It's the basic rule about not being allowed to measure distances unless rules call for it on page 3. Icons don't check to activate until the unit deep strikes, so you can't measure until you place the model on the table.

    Like I said though, it's kinda of a beardy RAW interpretation of the rule and it's up to your opponents to enforce it or not.

  10. #9
    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    So are you also saying that people using teleport homers and csm using there icons, have to place there guys before they can measure? or scatter?
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  11. #10
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Actually on page 3 it says you may measure if the rules allow it and then it lists measuring a rule's area of effect as an example of one you can. Deploying within 6" of an icon is an area of effect. I really think this is a grey area that can be disputed. I always measure and never have a problem from anyone.

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