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Right so I'm done with my current army. BC's, Fiends, GUO, tzherald, PB's and everything esle. So, Im buying the KoS forgeworld model cause it simply is awesome and I'm wondering how a KoS does in your armies. I'm not a slanneshi kind of guy and I've just started loving them, so in that part of the field I'm inexperienced. So tell my your thoughts on the KoS.
I love the Keeper of Secrets, although I'm not the largest fan of either official model (although the forgeworld one is definitely better than the GW one), so I custom made mine. I'll have to post it some time (I made it look like the killer plant from 'Little Shop of Horrors' ^_^).
The Keeper of Secrets, point for point, is one of the most dangerous close combat HQs in the game. Strength/Toughness 6, a ton of attacks, insanely high weapon skill and initiative, it's a monstrous creature, it moves amazingly fast across the table, it's not that expensive (points wise), and it works even better if you give it 'musk', so it can jump from close combat to close combat across the board.
Just be sure it doesn't get stuck facing too many powerfists/klaws or poisoned attacks, as it only has a 4+ save.
A KoS has always been good to me as long as they have survived on the table.. they are absolute fire magnets because of the high initiative, attacks and fleet rule.... don't be surprised if your opponent turns every gun on the table to get it off in one turn.. and I have seen that on many an occasion
As for the ForgeWorld model.. please don't take offense when i ask this... but are you familiar with FW models... this one is particularly fiddly.. if you look at it, all of those spikes on the leg and chest have to be cut off the sprue and stuck on.. they are TINY <1mm wide and they don't give you many spares. The sword is very thin and is prone to bending if you apply any prolonged pressure on it.. and the fingers on the back hand are super fiddly, very thin and absolutely have to be pinned with 0.5mm wire
I've had it for over 2 years and still haven't found a suitable transport case for it when i play big Apocalypse games... usually it sits on the top of everything else very carefully encased in bubblewrap
I have all of the FW Daemon lords and she is by far the hardest to put together.
Current Army Status - Chaos - 15000 points, Orks (BadMoonz) - 3000 Points - Space Wolves - 4000 Points, Necrons - 2000 Points.
Well, KoS is concedered to be the best GD in the game.And I belive that too!
Let's compare him with the BloodThirtser:
It has -2Ws,-1S(-2),+5I,+1A,and no 3+ normal save,but has Attack Granades.
BT can always move 12" while your Kos 7" to 12" with his Fleet ability and costs 50 pts less.
On the first view you can say that BT is much better!
Well he is not.Just like the rest of the Deamons army he comes via DS.That means that if you place him in the middle of the board he could reach every angle of it with ease.No need to move always 12".
As for the WS and the Strenght well does he need it?I mean how many units the whole game have 7WS or more and 5toughness or more? I don't say that WS10 is bad,no, but WS8 is also fine.
In addition for the 50 points you can add him some pretty cool upgrades like the mask,the Pavance or if you don't like it's strenght simply add the Unholy Might upgrade.
Let's now say that BT and KoS close combat a squad of 10 SM.
Take a look
4 To hit
3,8 To Wound
= about 4 models will die(round up)
5 To hit
4,8 To wound
=about 5models will die (round up)
That means that KoS kills more models that the BS.Not to mention that Sweeping Advances are almost ensured!
@Mr-Reroll: several points I find lacking in your assesment. First, how many WS 4 close combat units are there in the game? alot! WS 4 hit a WS 10 on a 5+ where they hit a WS 8 on a 4+. This combined with the armour save will improve your survivability on your GD.
Second, a BS can get S 8, which means he can instant kill characters. I will swap killing one less marine for instant killing a character any day. And your math is of, the one attack more doesnt give you a full hit more, you hit with 4,6666 attacks giving 3,8889 kills... and your BS would do 3,3333 kills, ie. half a marine more, not a full marine more...
Furthermore, you talk about added mobility while saying you'll sweeping advance more easily, while i agree i will mention that you cannot combine a succesfull sweeping advance with H&R (musk). You mention pavane as well, another really nice ability, but you can't use it along with your fleet so you waste one of them, and while pavane is better, as you move your opponent, you still have to hit with it.
grenades: you're right, BS can't get grenades and that is a weakness... you'll have to compensate with the added mobility...
Last, wings, wings are epic as you ignore intervening terrain and models, which makes it harder for your opponent to block you with rhinos or other moveable terrain... no matter how hard you try your KoS can't pass that pesky 35 pts rhino...
i would take the BS any day over the KoS as my GD even though he is more expensive.
I find your points totally valid, i'm just saying you left out alot in your assesment of the BS vs KoS as you can't just say it will kill one (half) marine more per combat...
Last edited by Sirholy; February 8th, 2011 at 16:06.
Woah, thanks for the insights guys. Hmm I've tried both the KoS and the BT and for me it really depends on the game. yup I've ordered FW models before and have heard it takes quite alot of effort to put together the FW KoS. I'll take it as a challenge. Should I give demonic gaze, musk and unholymight to the KoS?
Mors nos angeli, Sanguis sanguinem deus.
I just use musk. It's a must have for the KoS. Gaze doesn't do enough, and unholy might is usually overkill, but might be worth it if you face a lot of tough units (like Ork Biker Nobz or Monstrous Creatures) or Land Raiders.
Do you guys like the Keeper of Secrets better than the Bloodthrister? Or does it not really matter because in the whole scheme of things they are pretty close?