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  1. #1
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Herald Conundrum

    When I first got into the game a few years ago, one of my first posts on this forum asked the question "Why does Skulltaker have a ballistic score when he doesn't have a ranged weapon to use?". I had a few answers, but stuck out; Skulltaker is a Herald of Khorne, so he can take Death Strike from the Herald of Khorne entry. A few people seemed to acknowledge this as true, but I never really used it. But now, I've been using Skulltaker on a chariot in a group of Bloodletters. The chariot really makes Skulltaker a potent unit. So I find myself back to the question, can the unique Heralds take upgrades from the generic Herald entries? Can Skulltaker indeed take Death Strike or some of the other things like unholy might? I can see the Masque not taking some of the Slaanesh herald upgrades because she is an outcast, but what of Epidemius? Could he take Breath of Chaos if you wanted to? The beginning of the HQ entry for these units do say that they are all Heralds of each Chaos god. Gotta know what people think is right.


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  3. #2
    Member syaoran's Avatar
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    Each character has access to certain daemonic gifts, options or special rules based on the character entry/profile. If a gift is not listed on their profile, then they simply don’t have access to it. I don't understand why your even looking at the "Generic Herald Gifts Entry". Skulltaker and "Heralds of Khorne are two very different things. Skulltaker is an "Unique" character (your army list can only take one of) with his own profile, gifts, special rules and so on. Heralds of Khorne you can take several of and at half the price. If Skulltaker profile doesn't display the gift, then he doesn't have access to it. Whether you put him on a chariot or not doesn't change him from being "Skulltaker". Don't be fooled just because he is listed under the "Herald" section of the codex and think he has access to gifts which are not part of his profile.

    So to answer the question, "why does he have a BS skill??", to be honest, it's probably just a mistake with the codex which games workshop couldn't be bothered putting out an FAQ for as it doesn’t affect anything.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Stradius's Avatar
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    He has it because he's a Herald, for the same reason that Captain Lysander over in the SM dex has a BS of 5, The Swarmlord has a BS of 3, and so on, despite having no ranged weapon access. It's not like it could never be used either, certain scenarios and expansions (notably Planetstrike, but some Forgeworld stuff) can allow you to use it.
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  5. #4
    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    youre mixing up fluff with actual game play.

    its just there, just ignore it for normal game purposes.

    you can only take the options he's given. and i think thats a juggy and chariot.

    also if you want to upgrade anything it should be the +1 str that heralds can take but he cannot
    Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
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    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    But now, I've been using Skulltaker on a chariot in a group of Bloodletters. The chariot really makes Skulltaker a potent unit.
    Since everyone already answered the direct question (by saying that you cannot take other units upgrade options on a unique char, or any other unit for that matter) /i'll simply point out that you can't join a chariot to a unit because the chariot removes the "Independent Character" special rule. You can run a herald on a chariot near some bloodletters, but you cannot hide within the unit.
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  7. #6
    Son of LO ericismyname's Avatar
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    That's also correct and why the chariot...which makes his stat line tougher than a crusher...costs less.
    Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
    Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
    Grey knights - 1000 Points

  8. #7
    Son of LO andrewbeater's Avatar
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    Funny how people react now as opposed to a few years ago. I should try and find the original post. I wouldn't figure Skulltaker could take Herald gifts if someone on this forum had not suggested I could. I figured it was worth a relook. I'll wager in a new codex that Skulltaker will have access to the Death Strike.

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    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewbeater View Post
    Funny how people react now as opposed to a few years ago. I should try and find the original post. I wouldn't figure Skulltaker could take Herald gifts if someone on this forum had not suggested I could. I figured it was worth a relook. I'll wager in a new codex that Skulltaker will have access to the Death Strike.
    I suppose The Most Important Rule (BRB p2) applies here.

    WH40k is designed for the players to make House rules. I guess it's perfectly fine for you to play "Modified Uniques" among friends who may also want to try the same to enhance their enjoyment of the game, but against generic opponents and in Tournaments, it would not be allowed.
    Last edited by krytie; September 2nd, 2011 at 10:41.
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  10. #9
    FW has all my cash leighjt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krytie

    I suppose The Most Important Rule (BRB p2) applies here.

    WH40k is designed for the players to make House rules. I guess it's perfectly fine for you to play "Modified Uniques" among friends who may also want to try the same to enhance their enjoyment of the game, but against generic opponents and in Tournaments, it would not be allowed.
    I object in principal to that... House rules are (IMHO) completely deplorable because they allow you (anyone) to make up / alter the rules to a particular liking, which I think completely defeats the object of using published rules.
    Now the question that 'House Rules' really pose is why do we actually need most of them in the first place?? In my many many (20+) years playing WH40K i've always found the answer to be, because the rules are written by the people who play test them, as a result they know what they intended when the rule was written rather than using the rule to the 'letter of the law'. Therefore I suspect that the vast majority of the play testing is done in the 'spirit' of the intended rule and not precisely what is written... There are countless examples of rules which are so ambiguous I actually query if it's actually been play tested at all. I've always thought that new rules (codex/army books) should be given for play testing by the most beardy tournament players prior to release (with the obvious non disclosure agreement in place) so that they can do their magic and find every chink and weakness.... The result of that should be an amended rule set which doesn't have any need for player alteration.
    As far as I am concerned house rules give players a unreal picture of the particular unit in question... These can only be used with particular (regular) opponents and therefore largely redundant. There shouldn't be a need for them.

    My £0.02... I'll probably get flamed for it
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  11. #10
    Senior Member krytie's Avatar
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    No flames here - I agree with you in the sense that GW playing and testing leads them to miss holes in the rules, and playing to the spirit does indeed prevent rules-lawyering/bending, maximising lists, etc.

    What i should probably have said is, "at least this time GW realised that they are not infallible, and more-or-less put a disclaimer in as rule #1."

    The point i was kind of trying to make was that it's impossible/difficult to balance any generic ruleset when the options available to players are so varied. It is always likely that certain people/groups would prefer to play in a certain way (Mech / infantry/ Real-Life army style tactics [/shock] ), which ultimately shifts the balance that the games developers had fought to achieve. House rules (sometimes) help to restore this balance. They also help to make a game more fun by highlighting an aspect of the game that is locally enjoyed, but which may have been side-stepped by the new ruleset.

    This (i believe) is why so many earlier codexes/rulesets had very strict build rules, to try to limit the existence of the extreme builds which stretch the rules balancing to its limit. Now in the latest ruleset, most armies have some setup which completely ignores all the fluffy/flavoursome but weak (or even mediocre) units available, and spams the strongest ones. Is this what the developers planned? I doubt it. Whilst there is always the niggling suspicion that GW want each new army to have a "killer build" so that everyone "needs" to buy those units and that army to compete, I do still believe that they are at least trying to bring each new dex into a position to compete, tweaking GW's own ability to balance as they go. Ofc it would help if each dex was done by the same man...
    Last edited by krytie; September 3rd, 2011 at 19:26.
    There are three types of people in this world -- those who can count, and those who cannot.

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