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  1. #1
    Herald of Chaos Tyrius's Avatar
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    Daemons counts as

    So looking at another daemon army. Its going to be all tzeentch. I like alot of the vampire counts models but never been a big fantasy player. So Im thinking of using them and basing them all on circle bases. The deepstriking part is the army being raised.

    Heralds of tzeentch on chariots( Corpse cart, the rider being a necromancer)
    flamers- Ghouls
    Horrors- Zombies
    Screamers will be some custom flaming skulls I will be working on
    Daemon princes will be Varghulfs or something else equally large

    Have yet to look around and see if this has been done.

    I just don't like my armies looking exactly like anyone elses. Well and necrons which I have 3000+ points of are not undead enough for me

    Last edited by Tyrius; October 7th, 2011 at 08:28.
    My upcoming blog in the works:
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  3. #2
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    Your idea has a lot of merit if it is well executed first of all the models would need the right feel/look, this comes from size of models and the paint job. If your opponent has to accept the army and not just accept it as proxy i'd suggest a few things.

    White undercoat and work with several of the different washes out there to create those vivied colours
    change the ghouls use to horrors and maybe use wood elf dryads as flamers... closer in size, still plastic and you would avoid using zombies. I think its really the zombie part where i as an opponent would be sceptical. The ghouls on the other hand could works as the horrors with both size and posture being "right"...
    Dunno about the varghulfs, feel they'd be out of bounds... anyhow, no matter what you end up just think about, if your opponent has to ask all the time about what is what then the idea fails...

    good luck

  4. #3
    Herald of Chaos Tyrius's Avatar
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    Well really the idea is to use a fantasy army in 40k. I don't have a vampire counts fantasy army nor would I play them. I do like their models. Seeing how there is no herald of t, and the corpse cart is one of my favorite models it makes for a good herald and following the theme of a necromancer raising an army of the dead. Seems that coming from the ground is perfect for an army that deepstrikes. The varghulfs are comparable in size to daemon princes. All the models that I am using are about the same size. The only real converting I thought about was making the zombies more 40k by replacing their weapons with 40k weapons.

    Im not proxying an army with using dryads and ghouls. I'm making an undead counts as daemons army.
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    thats fair enough. I'm more or less allways thinking in a competive mindset, cause if it is for friendly games only, you dont really need to ask in a forum, but should ask the ones you're gaming with. If you plan on bringing it to a tournament though i don't see this admitted, simply as the distinction between your horrors and flamers isnt good enough for competitive play. But again it will allways depend on the environment and the ones you'll be playing. I'm a european player so might be a difference there as well.

    anyway, enjoy the project, haven't heard of/seen one like this before.

    btw there is a tzeentch herald model out

  6. #5
    Herald of Chaos Tyrius's Avatar
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    Actually in regards to even GW rules the model must be made of GW parts or self made and be wysiwyg. Seeing how daemons are armed with very little wargear if any wysiwyg is fine. The models are not hard to represent another. If an opponent cant tell that my 30 zombies are horrors and my 9 ghouls are flamers and my flying skull is a screamer they probably don't know much about 40k or enough about it. Its not like I am running 10 units of 5 different things all counting as the same thing or using Chaos marines to count as daemons. If I chose to play it in a tournament it would be completely legal under GWs ruleset.....If gw ran more then just ard boyz.

    There is no Tzeentch herald on a chariot is what I had ment. But when this project began there was not even the one on a disc.

    Im having hard time grasping how you think that a ghoul as a horror.... is more acceptable then a zombie. And a dryad as a flamer then a ghoul. I actually have made my own sculpts for the flamers but its harder to justify why I want a theme in my army that I scratch built/converted most of it. I played daemons to begin with for the fact a "daemon" is different to each person it could manifest itself differently and for fluff sake its the Tzeentch he can change whatever he wants his daemons to look like
    Last edited by Tyrius; October 11th, 2011 at 02:47.
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  7. #6
    Interrogator-Chaplain pilot00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrius View Post
    f an opponent cant tell that my 30 zombies are horrors and my 9 ghouls are flamers and my flying skull is a screamer they probably don't know much about 40k or enough about it.
    The problem is not the knowledge of 40k.The problem is the models.What will explain to me at first glance that this :Vampire Counts Zombie Horde | Games Workshop is this :Pink Horrors of Tzeentch | Games Workshop and not this :Bloodletters of Khorne | Games Workshop or this :Plaguebearers of Nurgle Command | Games Workshop (posted the pics to give emphasis).

    Just because you have them figured out doesnt mean it will be easy to do so by your opponent.In 40k we know plague bearers,damonettes,bloodletters and horrors.Why one should have the picture of a zombie for them?
    The same goes for the screamers.Why should a skull ring a bell to me that it is a screamer?

    What i am trying to say is that before playing you will need to make a lot of explaining for what is what.I like the idea but i find it hardly executable to a competitive environment.Also dont forget that there are alot of people who will look down at you for trying to play in both worlds with one army.I know you dont want to do it but others will.Mankind is not known for been that open minded.

    As for tournament play,i would say no.The reasons been,you complicate things a lot and second what is to stop me lets say from proxying a chaos space marine army(with no tanks OFC)as a warriors of chaos army?We can all magnetize our armies,give them a paintjob that will fit in between and switch weapons and play in both worlds.I am trying to simulate the arguments you might face in a store/tournament not been a smart@ss.

    I say it again:I like the idea,but it is a complicated project that people wont get the hang of,at least until they play you a couple of times.
    For friendly games its a win win.For competitive id say you ll face problems.
    Last edited by pilot00; October 11th, 2011 at 22:22.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Duo_Sonata's Avatar
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    I could see you having issues trying to bring the army to a tournament they are not the "correct" models and that you'd have to explain what each model counts as in your entire army to every player you'd come across before you play them. Also let's face it, people tend to dislike those who use proxy/counts as armies. However friendly games with those you're familiar with you likely not come into any issues so have at.

    The only real beef I have with the project is why Tzeentch? Why not Nurgle, seeing as you'd be using models more appropriate for his realm. Especially if you're looking to stick with an undead theme, the fluff behind plague zombies has been established so you'd have much less of a hard time explaining your army to your opponents
    Warhammer 40k: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, Grey Knights, Space Lizards (wolves), Kroot, Witch Hunters, Dark Eldar
    Warhammer: Lizardmen, Empire, Vampire Counts, Brettonians, High Elves, Skaven

  9. #8
    Herald of Chaos Tyrius's Avatar
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    If your explaining the army it doesnt matter what god your daemons are you would be explaining and tzeentch is the only one that can actually drop in and do something as a mono god list it actually preforms better then other mono god lists.

    I would likely never play it competitively as daemons are probably the furthest from that. My adeptus mechanicus mech blood angels do just fine. If I did apparently my group is not so anal about using counts as models and having to tell someone that the big chariot sized model is a herald of t, the 30 zombies are horrors, the 9 ghouls are flamers, the 9 floating skulls are screamers, and the varghulfs are daemon princes is easy to grasp as they are all rightly sized and based. Most of the people I play in friendly games attend the tournaments each month we do. I dont plan to play them in both worlds ever. I hate fantasy its a rubbish game system with so much randomness it makes the 40k daemon army look reliable. All the models with be based on circle bases except probably the chariot unless I find a circle base that is rightly sized for it.
    My upcoming blog in the works:
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    considering that everyone is saying "cool project, but i cant imagin this and this becomming a problem if you plan to do this and this" you're very defensive about it. I can see one would allways defend ones idea, but if you can't accept any advice or criticism, why post? if you plan to use it in a friendly environment, you dont really need our help, if you dislike any idea or help given then you dont really need our help, so why post?

    And yes, it is a problem as soon as you need to explain your army, explaining is reserved for proxying and an understanding opponent, 'counts as' has to have a right and logical feel to it, preferably with as few questions as possible. If you show with that army and you just say daemons, then yes, people will probably guess how the base sizes fits, but from then on, they're lost... most will probably guess on it being nurgle as sugested above.

    Anyway, i dont really have anything more to add since i'm quite confused with the whole idea of the army... i understand you want to use the VC models since they're cool, and you want to play 40k in a non competitive environment... what else is this post about other than telling the community "i'm doing this"...?

    And as allways, written language is a bitch and can lead to misunderstandings, so pre-emptively: I'm sorry if i have misunderstood you, please explain then and furthermore the above is meant in no offensive or wiseass way

  11. #10
    Herald of Chaos Tyrius's Avatar
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    The defense is that people say it wouldnt be "legal" to play in a tournament. When in fact even at the biggest of tournaments would be legal. What a model is armed with is what you need to represent and a model must be either mostly GW parts or your own sculpts. This is how it was when RT actually ran tournaments GW doesn't in fact run anything but ard boys now.

    Noone actually says its a "good idea" the best is it has merit then suggests using other models to count as something else. I'm going for a uniformed theme of an undead army in 40k ran as daemons. The undead being raised from the ground to represent the deepstriking.
    Last edited by Tyrius; October 13th, 2011 at 20:30.
    My upcoming blog in the works:
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