Some more general whining about our balancing issues. - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member uber's Avatar
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    Some more general whining about our balancing issues.

    I recently picked up a friend's chaos army, and among his units are bikers and possessed. they possessed are actually really well modeled, so it's a shame i will never use the pieces of garbage.

    since i finally have them i bothered to look them up in the codex to get a feel for how i would ever use them. what i learned really bummed me out.

    for 26 points a model i get to lose all shooting capability, get +1S, fearless, and a crapshoot roll on a table that has only 3 outcomes that i would bother taking.

    wtf?

    a bezerker is 21 points and i get fearless, furious charge, pistols, the chance to get plasma pistols, power weapons, powerfist, furious charge, more attacks, and +1WS.

    can anyone tell me how this is supposed to be balanced? how is a troop choice that much better than an elite? i don't see anything possessed do that bezerkers can't do much better. this is utter crap codex development.

    also, it is not right that half of our cult troops are universally considered good choices and the other half are expensive pieces of fluff that are really not all that great.
    isn't the point behind troop choices to achieve a balance between the options? you know, give a little here, take a little there? some of our units are more like take a little here, and take a little more there.

    i want to own everything in the codex, but some of the units are so poorly conceived that it is pointless. and don't even get me started on spawn.

    I love the smell of promethium in the morning.

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  3. #2
    Junior Member A.T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uber View Post
    how is a troop choice that much better than an elite?
    You don't see many legion of the damned around do you?

    Look on the bright side - you have good troops choices. Not everyone is so lucky.

  4. #3
    Toy Soldier Aficionado Wolf Guard's Avatar
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    Possessed also have a 5+ invul save, if my memory is correct. But that doesn't make up for the being dreadfully awful for their points.
    The Wolf time is upon us!
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  5. #4
    Treadhead with a Chainaxe Kaiser's Avatar
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    Meh, the current codex was a disgrace from the start.

    But if you think the injustices within the Codex are bad, try comparing a Grey Hunter with a Chaos Space Marine. The chaos space marine gets one point of higher leadership. For that one point, the Grey Hunter squad gets; Acute Senses, Counter Attack and The Shall Know No Fear... oh, and a free flamer which they can exchange for another special weapon at a point discount.

    That's right. Three special rules and a flamer vs one point of leadership. I'm not even going to bother comparing the number of choices the both units get on top of that...

    (Oh, lets not mention how two identical predators from different books differ so much in price as well...)
    #lochat, irc.quakenet.org
    World Eaters, Kaiser Style < Old thread. No ressurecting!
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  6. #5
    The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss eiglepulper's Avatar
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    I feel your pain about the Possessed unit. I just used the models to create a rather warped-looking Chosen Unit. As for the bike squadron: not good enough to warrant using except as a bunch of ablative wounds to get a Chaos Lord on a bike into combat. Pointless otherwise.

    Oh for the days of spiky bits, power weapons and veteran skills. *dreams fondly*

    E.
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  7. #6
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Good rant. I think we all feel that way to a certain extent. Here's a few more things to consider: First, bear in mind that the CSM codex was designed in a time when GW was "toning down" armies. Shortly after it's release, GW changed its philosophy and began beefing codices back up; hence, we find Grey Knights overpowering when compared to our basic marines. Now, that said, we shouldn't expect our marines to ever compete one-on-one with GK troops. Knights have always been a small army with powerful troop option(s). Chaos Marines, on the other hand, are a tad less elite. We rely on a added numbers, not to mention an arsenal of decent support units.

    Possessed: If you add up their upgrades, they're actually a bargain. Although, that doesn't make them worth fielding on their own. They really needed a more focused random dice roll chart that pivoted on a general predictability of choices, rather than including combat tricks, defensive buffs, and movement mods all packaged into one. This at least would have granted them some measure of constancy that the Chaos player could have used in order to determine how they should be fielded prior to the game start.

    CSM Troop choices: For the past two CSM editions, Plague Marines and Berzerkers have been the infantry of choice. It's a real shame that Tzeentch and Slaanesh have been left at the wayside, especially from a marketing standpoint. Seriously, GW could have made a killing from our last codex if they had simply buffed Noise Marines and Thousand Sons. Instead, they continued with the previous desirability of Nurgle and Khorne troops.
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  8. #7
    Senior Member Arjuna's Avatar
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    Possessed are never a bargain. If you want a dedicated assault unit berzerkers do it better, and can take a fist and is scoring. Even IF the possessed rolls a 6 and gets power weapons, they are just less armoured and armed terminators for a similar points cost...

    And even back in 2nd ed Plague Marines and Berzerkers were the way to go. Plague marines were durable as heck and could lay out blight grenade "minefields" to control enemy movements while berzerkers would slaughter anything and everything in cc...
    win some, lose some

  9. #8
    The other Kind of Fluff Rabbit's Avatar
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    Well, they certainly aren't a bargain when you consider what else you can take for 26 points a pop; however, the point value of their upgrades exceeds their cost by a decent amount. That makes them a bargain at cost, even if they aren't worth fielding.
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  10. #9
    Junior Member A.T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
    Meh, the current codex was a disgrace from the start.
    You could argue that a codex is only as good or bad as the others around when it's released - everything will suffer from codex creep over the years.

    Grey hunters are better of course, but compared to dark angels tac marines from the same year... No doubt when the next dex is released the cycle will repeat, the CSMs will be the best thing around for a year or so until trumped by codex:some other space marines.

  11. #10
    Treadhead with a Chainaxe Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.T. View Post
    You could argue that a codex is only as good or bad as the others around when it's released - everything will suffer from codex creep over the years.
    I could argue a codex worth by the number of models it makes obsolete. All the hours I've spent assembling, converting and painting models that are now made illegal.

    A codex that takes away part of your army is a disgrace regardless of how powerful it turns out to be.
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