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What are all the current most competitive builds for chaos space marines?
I'm trying to build up a comptitive list from the stuff I own.
I'm assuming that double lash princes with 2 or 3 demolishers are still at the top of the chaos competitive lists or has that been completely neutered by the advent of vehicle heavy armies?
I havent played CSM in like a year so please do post any knowledge you may have
This is what i currently own (not planning on buying new stuff)
1 Abaddon the Despoiler
2 Aspiring Sorcerer
2 Chaos Lord
1 Chaos Lord
1 Chaos Lord - Jump Pack
95 Chaos Space Marines
55 Chaos Space Marines - Close Combat Weapon
8 Chaos Space Marines - Plasma gun
5 Chaos Space Marines - Meltagun
5 Chaos Space Marines - Flamer
9 Chaos Space Marines - Heavy Bolter
5 Chaos Space Marines - Lascannon
8 Aspiring Champion
1 Chaos Terminator Sorcerer
2 Daemon Prince
1 Fabius Bile
1 Huron Blackheart
1 Kharn the Betrayer
36 Khorne Berzerkers
32 Khorne Berzerkers
4 Skull Champion
1 Lucius the Eternal
7 Plague Marines
5 Plague Marines
1 Plague Marines - Plasma gun
1 Plague Champion
16 Thousand Sons
1. Tyranids - 15,000 pts
2. Chaos Space Marines - 7,100 pts
3. Space Marines - 6,000 pts
I answered on another forum...
win some, lose some
i think much of "competitive" list building really has more to do with how well your list works together than it does the actual units used.
i've won many games using non competitive units in lists, but the list has good balance and works together.
i think my most potent lists generally run like as follows:
1 or 2 princes
1 bezerker squad
1 plague marine squad
1 CSM squad
i tend to put melta on the regular squad and plasma guns on the plague marines. this gives me two good assault troops and a good support/anti-elite troop. with the princes, i get the benefit of up to two more great assault/anti-tank units. the trick is not to expose your princes too early. they are death for enemies late game.
pred with AC/LC sponsons
i run this set up for several reasons. it gives me 5 lascannons for tank busting. the oblits are great against pretty much anything, and a smart opponent will take them out asap, but the defiler is there is to look menacing. people are afraid of the battle cannon, but the don't realize that with the list i run it is complete surplusage. i don't need a large AP3 template as i have really good assault units. this leaves the cannon as a redundant weapon. what is great about this is that if the defiler is targeted my oblits and troops will be free to get close and wreak havoc. if the troops are targeted then the defiler gets to either blow crap up or charge. the list can accomodate the loss of any unit without losing any effectiveness. the pred is also useful for its armor value. a 13 forces my opponent to devote lascannons to it, rather than shooting my oblits with them. i have found that lists with no armor greater than 12 have big problems as opponents have total discretion how to allocate ordnance against your stuff. having 13+ takes away a lot of that discretion.
the one thing i have learned to watch for is fast melta, as in bikers or speeders. these can close the gap quickly and really hurt my list. so i tend to deal with those early.
also, the PM and oblits provide enough plasma should i face numerous terminators.
the only army that i could struggle with would be horde armies, but even then i have princes and templates, so i do well there too.
i've played with and against lash builds, and i have to say that i don't think much of them. if you play into the trap it will wreck your day, but it doesn't take much to deny the advantage. my list is more difficult to strategize against, i think.
so there you have my take on what the best chaos list is. it's also super fun to use.
I love the smell of promethium in the morning.
In 5th ed' you need Troops, and they need to be able to cross the table to claim Objectives within five turns. Luckily all our Troops units are good at something, and reasonably costed.
Next you need to shut down the enemy's vehicles and prevent him from claiming the same Objectives, so you need some kind of fire based capable of vehicle killing.
Daemon Princes are magnets for enemy fire, which can be useful.
Lash is an obvious and very useful power, both for Sorcerers and DPs. Remember though that many armies have anti-psy stuff these days. Keep your HQ cheap and make sure it can help with Assaults.
In Objective games Troops have two roles, claiming their Objectives and holding yours. To hold your own Objectives there are a few good choices: 10 CSM PG/LC/Champ with PF/IoCG; small squads of Heavy equiped Noise Marines, and the 'fabled' 5 Plague Marines with 2x PG. All these squads should be in a Rhino with Havoc and Dozer (which lets you move in Area Terrain with little chance of screwing up).
To go get their Objectives, all our Troops units are suitable, though 1000 Sons aren't so good in a boxing match. Power Fists are mandatory for these attacking squads, as are Rhinos (preferably with an extra Bolter, or Combi if you like them. Mine have dozers too, but many players disagree with that choice)
In 2k lists you need 4-5 Troops units.
For anti-vehicle, Obliterators have a great choice of weapons and can move and shoot (and hide in cover), they are a great choice. They can also trash Outflankers, enemy DS units etc too, and are handy in fist fight, though best not on their own.
Predators and Havocs are less mobile, and therefore sometimes less effective. Many players like Defilers despite their drawbacks. For me Defilers need to be shooting from cover.
Demolishers need support because they need to get close, and their flanks are very vulnerable.
Meltaguns and Combi-Meltas are of course very useful, but need to be very close, so they are not the only solution.
In your list, go Troops and Anti-Tank first, then get an HQ to work with your Troops and any Elites you might use. If you are using Termies or Berzerkers, Lash is an Obvious choice. If you are using Termies, Icons or Landraiders are a must.
Here's my current CSM 2k list
Sorcerer: MoS, Icon, Lash, MB, Wings <Rides in Raider>
DP: MoN, Wings
6 Terminators: IoS, 5x Combi-Melta, Reaper & Chain Fist
9 Berzerkers: Champ has PF <ride in the Landraider>
5 PM: 2x Plasmagun. Rhino with Dozer & Havoc
5 PM: 2x Plasmagun. Rhino with Dozer & Havoc
10 CSM: 2x Meltagun, Champ with Icon & PF. Rhino with Dozer & additional TL-Bolter
Landraider: DP, Dozer