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My questions both concern my Khorne army.
The first, and short one, concerns taking infiltrate as a veteran skill for my berserker squads. I cannot find anywhere in the codex that says I can't take it as a veteran skill. However, this seems like a very effective tactic, and I have my doubts about being able to take it as I would have thought it would be a popular tactic. So is it allowed? In which case, why is it not popular? Is it just not as powerful as furious charge?
The second concerns Khorne tactics against Necrons. I am having a huge amount of problem against my friend's Necron army. The big problem is three particular units: the Monolith (obviously), a Nightbringer, and Destroyers. The problem is that my enemy takes all three in a 1500 pt battle. Now, I try to ignore them and go for a Phase out, but it's very hard. He usually positions his Monolith and Nightbringer so I have to charge them, and the tripple-lascannon predator usually goes down to Destroyer fire as they zip into range.
His army is usually:
4 squads of Warriors
4 Destroyers or so
I know it should be fairly easy to phase him out, but I am having a huge amount of trouble. I cannot kill anything with my Predator. I may be able to get a wound or two on the C'tan, or maybe immobilise the monolith (and destroy a particle whip or two), but I can't deal with both and then having destroyers to deal with. I try possessed to go after the C'tan, but they get shot to pieces by Warriors. My squads charge the monolith, which they can hurt but can't hit (they have to get 6's). And if they do charge the monolith they are ripped up by warrior fire. My daemon prince gets into combat, but he is usually the only thing that gets there, and with monolith-sucking, he usually can't kill enough Necrons for a phase out.
My first thought is to try Bikes, but they are very expensive, and quite suseptible to gauss fire at their price. Another thought was more daemons, but usually I don't get my squad close enough. I suppose bikes + daemons isn't a bad strategy.
So does anyone have any idea how I could beat a Necron player in battles that size? I have every Khorne unit except a Land Raider, so I am open to all suggestions.
The Infiltrate description (page 19 of Chaos codex) says models with the Mark of Khorne can't Infiltrate.
I don't know Khorne very well, but that does sound like a lot of Necron cheese for 1500 points. I'd say go for lots of lascannons, but the Khorne frenzy thing doesn't seem to work too well with that. How about Dreadnoughts?
Bikes are great vs Necrons just move them more than 18" for the inv save and get them into cc, as for the big guys put powerfists on your aspiring champs (or demonic talons if you dont want to go last). Bloodletters are nice against Necrons but they are alot of points gone if you get a bad scatter and not have them in cc the turn they are summoned. Speed is key so feel free to put your berserkers in rhinos or use the rhinos to block line of sight to the big guys so they dont have to charge them
Sand's right when it comes to Infiltrating Khornates. - they are simply to rowdy to be quiet in order to sneak up on anyone! Furious Charge is a must on Berzerkers!
Anyway, trying to recreate the Necron list that you described isn't possible with 1500 points- so you might want your opponent to check their math.
This sort of army would be tough for a Khorne player. If you are not playing a straight out World Eaters army, then you need to invest in some havocs. I'm also a big fan of Raptors- they can infiltrate. I'm not a big fan of bikes- expensive and to easily taken out by massed fire.
However, if you are playing a WE army, there is some hope.
On the positive, he has no ressurection orb- so heavy weapons and power weapons really will nullify any WWB rolls. You are going to need to take advantage of that -
The only Chaos Character that could deal with the Nightbringer is a Bloodthirster- it won't be autokilled with the NB's St 10, and the BT only needs 3's to hit and 4's to wound- not to mention that it also has a 4+Invulnerable save. (Do C'tan ignore invulnerable saves?) If you are able to wound the NB before the BT gets into combat, than you stand a decent shot.
Regardless, I might take a list like this.
8 Chosen w/mark of Khorne
include 2 Aspiring Champs- one with Dem Chains to Summon BT, the other AC with a PF to deal damage to whatever it runs into. Include standard upgrades- Spiky bits, Furious charge, Chainaxes, plasma pistols. Throw them into a rhino- Yes they are death traps, but trust me, I'll explain.
Troops:Add another unit of regular berzerkers with upgrades and rhino
2 units of Bloodletters (can only afford units of 5)
A Predator with TL Las, Las Sponsons and Dem possession
A Defiler w/indirect fire, TL Las, Dem Possession and parasidic possession.
Pred has a chance at knocking out Monolith +/or wounding Nightbringer. Defiler can drop pie plates of doom on Destroyers +/or warriors - might even take a shot at Monolith w/TL las, but I'd rathe use it to kill scores or necrons. Try to keep them back from wariors- you are going to have to take a chance vs the desroyers.
If the berzerkers don't blood rage, move them up 12 in the rhino, jump them out of the rhino and use it as cover. That way, if the rhino gets punked, your berzerkers aren't entangled. Also, when/if the bloodletters are summoned on turn 2, they can get immediatly into play. With some luck they will scatter where you need them. Also with some luck a BT will get on the board and be close enough to start killing some warriors or whatnot.
Either way, hopefully you have some deamons or a BT on the board, which will suck up some fire from the Necrons. They should be able to handle it. This allows the rest of your army to try to get closer. Once berzerkers get into contact with warriors, they will be fine. The bloodletters should also make quick work of whatever unit it runs into.
Yes the Monolith is going to be problematic, but, possible to knock out. keep your Pred out of range from it.
the phase out number is probably about 10. That is tough to get to, but if you can use the defiler to take out the destroyers and get your berzerkers and bloodletters close enough, they should eat through warriors like swiss cheese. Mostlikely he'll send his NB to your BT, freeing up your troops to do thier job. even if your BT is engaged with the NB and a unit of warriors, if he's close to phae out, kill the warriors.
It's a difficult task, and will take a little finesse, (which is unusual for a Khorne list) but can be done.
My last bit of advice- only ever have 8 dice out on the table. Sometimes the Blood God rewards those who use a favored number of dice!
first off smack your opponent with the rulebook for using both a night bringer and a monolith in 1500pts. secondly i'd definately advise you to get a Defiler to drop those pie plates on the warriors and hopefully force a quick phase out. also dont bother trying to out combat the nightbringer, it's a waste of time and points so no BT or expensive lord just a lieutenant with a few gifts and such should suffice.
ok now load up on berserker squads and have as many rhinos as possible just for the sheer chance that a squad or 2 wont go raging right out of them and be able to direct your berserkers into his warrior squads. also even if they do bail then use the rhinos to block the berserkers line of sight to things you dont want them to charge, like say a monolith. the key here is to force a phase out, ignore the monolith and NB completely have atleast one defiler and then max out on berserkers and bloodletters and just focus on ripping apart his warrior squads.
Blood for the Blood god!
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