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I don't actually play as Chaos, I play as the Tau, BUT I do fight Chaos often. My friend is a beginner (sort of) Chaos player, and I consider myself an intermediate player, but he has a huge 4000 pt. army from ebay. I'm stuck with a 1200 Tau army. Whenever I play him, he says that all of his units are fearless, and that he has sorcerers from Tzeentch and Khorne Berzerkers, among other things. I do not have access to a CM codex, and sometimes wonder if he's making stuff up. He just seems TOO powerful!
The main thing is what marks is he using (other then tzeencth and khorne)? Is eh a black legion or some other army being led by chaos undivided or is it a follower or a certain god or certain army. If he is using undivided for his hq, then he can only have a few space amrines following a chaos god as each unit takes up an elite choice. Only like 2-3 units are fearless without a certain mark (Thinking khorne is only one). Give us an idea of what types of units he is using. But not all of his units are fearless thats a given. If you can get the army list hes playign against you witht hen we can eaisly tell if hes cheating or not (He can only play at most 1200 against you as you only have 1200 to fight him with).
As apostles yet not as Apostles. As Believers yet not as Believers. As Traitors yet not as Traitors! We are Disciples of Vengeance. Only bowing and praying forgiveness of our God. Only bowing and defeating the enemies of our God. Wielding our Swords in the night and brandishing our Guns during the day. We are Soldiers. The Soldiers of Mala!
I have a friend who plays chaos too. Yeah, he seems to be cheating. Ask him to lend you his codex for about a week. Then you would have the oppertunity to become well versed in chaos. If he is wrong, wirite down page numbers that disprove him.
Where's your Baritone Saxophone?
Or be lazy and ask him to show you the pages that explain that he isnt cheating .
"God works in mysterious ways."
"Everything happens for a reason."
I actually have a slug living in YOU, right now...
Slowly will start playing: Iyanden, and Chaos.
I don't think you even need to do this. When your playing against him and you think that something he did wasn't aloud just ask him to show you where it says that hes aloud to do that in his codex. If he refuses and pulls out some kinda lame excuse like " come on its gonna waste time if I have to look in there". then you would know that he is cheating and he doesnt want to admit it.Originally posted by Grand Master Overcannon@Mar 15 2005, 20:27
I have a friend who plays chaos too. Yeah, he seems to be cheating. Ask him to lend you his codex for about a week. Then you would have the oppertunity to become well versed in chaos. If he is wrong, wirite down page numbers that disprove him.[snapback]353593[/snapback]
This is why an army list is so useful. He could be lying on his points costs and actually be able to do all that stuff (tzeentch and khorne are both fearless). Ask to see an army list with EVERYTHING he has in his army and then ask to see his codex or borrow the store copy (something that's always useful, the shop I play at has every codex with both 3rd and 4th FAQ's and chapter approved ringbound in with it).
Go through and make sure you understand everything he's doing.
Some things to check:
Is he using flight/speed with glaive?
Is he giving psychic powers to rubric tzeentch marines/terminators?
Is he putting tzeentch marked characters in khorne units?
Is he "giving" himself free aspiring champions?
Any models that have a mark other than Mark of Chaos Undivided (which includes berserkers and tzeentch troops) are fearless. Models with the MoCU may re-roll failed morale checks.
He is allowed to take berserkers and tzeentch-marked troops in the same army, as long as he is not playing any of the following armies:
Any of those armies are required to take the Mark of Khorne/Slaanesh/Tzeentch/Nurgle, respectively, for every unit, so the other types of troops, daemons, etc, are disallowed.
The limitation on taking unitss of other types is that if they do not have the same mark as his commander (either his Lord or the Lt that costs the most) or the mark of Chaos Undivided, then they become elites. This is all confusing, so I'll try to sum it up rather quickly:
1) A Daemon always retains its slot in the force organization chart.
2) A unit with the Mark of Chaos Undivided always retains its slot in the force organization chart.
3) A unit with a mark different from the Commander's mark (other than the two exceptions above) is an elite choice.
Hope that helps. Chaos can sometimes be somewhat complicated because there are lots of exceptions and options to play with, which sometimes results in people playing illegal armies even if they don't mean to.
Edit: Also, any troops that are marked with a specific mark ARE bound by the rules for that mark, remember, so that may be another thing you want to check in his army. Just because he's not playing one of the dedicated armies doesn't mean they get the benefits of the mark and none of the drawbacks, so berserkers are subject to blood rage and such, and must disembark from a transport if they become gripped, can't fire, etc, and tzeentch-marked troops cannot take any special weapons or anything (I believe). It's all in the codex, though, so just ask to see it or borrow it sometime.
One of the best ways to handle these people...... Tell them you won't play wihtout a legal, written, to the letter army list. Then, should he produce one, tell him to give you the codex to check everything and make sure his math is right. Sadly enough, this game attracts there kinds of people. People who just HAVE to cheat, it just doesn't make sense.
well, noone explained that marked units that don't have the same mark as the lord count as elites. So if the lord had the Mark of Chaos Undivided (MoCU), then khorne and tzeentch units would be elites. If the lord had the mark of khorne, then the khorne units would be troops, but the tzeentch would be elites.
If he is playing a special army (like world eaters (khorne)), then all units must carry the mark of that particular god, and he cannot take units from other gods. In addition, all favored units (units of particular size favored by the god) get a free aspiring champion in those types of armies.
Khorne and Tzeentch units are fearless. MoCU can reroll morale.
But IMHO you should either
1. Buy a CSM Codex (that's what I did when local players were cheating, then I became fascinated with Iron Warriors)
2. Borrow his codex, and learn it inside and out.
3. Borrow his army list and post it here.
Chaos is complex.
Wednesday nights at GW (Ontario Mills in Ontario, CA)
4-7-05 - SoB 1200, S&D Omega, Opponent was new.
4-7-05 - ME! Chris beats me again with his space wolves (he is a good palyer without his eldar).