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Usualy i run barebones HQ units. I am wondering if Im missing out on something. Point for point is a tooled up lord or lieutinant worth it? Or should i just go with more units. in 1000 point games it feels like i almost lose a squad by making my lord a cc monster, points wise anyways?
I used to go with an expensive lord, but know i only use lieutenants under 80 points.
I think that the enemy will fear your army more with a nastier HQ, and he will seem to do more damage nad be harder to kill, but i think a <100 point lieutenant will be more likely to kill more points than he is worth.
So overall, i think a cheap HQ is the best bet.
Chaos - 11W 0L 0D
Orks - 8W 0L 0D
Tyranids - 8W 0L 0D
I usualy take tooled up lords but never DP's lots of wargear and maybe Dmutation but not much more... thats just me... But I love my bloodthirster, dont leave home without him.
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I also used to go for a tooled up DP, particularly for my Khorne army, but I just found it too strong, and the games just stopped being any fun. So now I usually go with Lt dedicated for 1-2 turn slaughters, preferably against enemy HQs. I am enjoying my games far more now, as are my opponents.
Beasts of Chaos (4000)
Chaos Marines (3000)
My lieutenant is at around 120 points in my LatD army (which I have yet to use) for several reasons - he is designed to fight alongside Beserkers meaning he has to be tough in close combat and unlikely to fall from a slap across the face, he is also meant to work in unison with the rest of the army meaning he has to be adaptable (which is another way of saying expensive)>
Well, for anything under 1500 pts I always use a barebone Lieutenant with either a power fist or a power weapon with D. Strenght and melta-bombs (and D. Mutation if I have the points) and I put all my points where it really count. No single character in the game will win it for you and if it does it's not fun playing it.
I still have my statured Daemon Prince that I use for 2000 pts game, he's just too fun. I use it to protect my flanks and my Havoc units or just kill annoying units like snipers. At 166 pts he's a CC beast and he fly, cheap enought not to bust the 10% HQ limit I impose to myself, but fearful enought to act as a fire magnet and as a really great support for my army.
Last edited by Thyr; April 11th, 2005 at 21:09.
No, it's not always a good idea. Basically, you need to find a balance for your army between how effective your Lord will be vs. how effective those points would be better spent elsewhere. Many upgrades for a DP are worth another whole model in a squad, or another heavy weapon, etc -- so would it be better to have another missile launcher in that havoc squad, or would it be better to have d. aura on your HQ? In general, I'd say it's best to have restraint and minimize the HQ's upgrades, even though it's easy and tempting to spend a lot on him. The reason is that every point you spend is basically an investment in your army, and you want fairly reliable investments. Here's what I mean in an example versus Tau:
In a squad of 8 havocs, 4 with missile launchers, you can take 4 wounds of any strength at range before you start to lose any of your missile launchers, which are all the squad is really there for. 4 railgun shots shoot the unit, it can still do its job and fire 4 missiles the next round. A squad like that would be about 200 points (or 224 with tank hunters) with the mark of chaos undivided, and is fairly durable, versatile, and able to take out just about anything on the battlefield.
Meanwhile, you can just as easily invest close to 200 points on a crazy tooled up Daemon Prince. Even with stature, though, he'll only have T5 for instantkill purposes, and daemonic rune is really just too expensive. A single railgun shot could wipe out 200 points on the first turn of the game -- even if he was going to mop the floor with all those little firewarrior squads, he'll never see close combat now.
While the railgun is available only to Tau armies, dreadnaughts, vindicators, and a few other units also have S10 weapons which could spell a quick end for an investment in a tooled up DP.
It's nice to have a unit in the army that is above-average in close combat and capable to rip through squads fairly fast -- but recent discussions here have shown that you can make a fairly effective killer with fairly few points.
Tooling up HQ choices is all too easy. You aim to impose a limit on how much you are going to spend on him, but then there's always that other upgrade that's really useful and too good to pass up on... and the next... and the next one... it just goes on like that until your lord who wasn't meant to be more than 140 points is suddenly a 200 point Daemon Prince with Daemon weapon and rediculous numbers of daemonic gifts.
Thyr is right, you shouldn't really spend over 10% of your points all on one model. Lieutenants with a half-decent weapon and 2-3 daemonic upgrades, if that even, should suffice. I frequently take a slaaneshi lt. with power weapon, d.strength and melta bombs. He latches onto one of my squads that has a rhino and cc weapons and generally kills a lot more points than he's worth. This is 40K we're playing here guys, not Fantasy. All that square-base nonsense. Pshh. Who ever though of a character being almost 900 points? Rediculous. As Sithlet says, you can make a very effective killer for relatively few points. That said, uber-tough Khorne daemon princes come two for a penny, and more often than not they don't go down until the dying stages of the game. It just spoils the game for everyone. What is the point of having a retinue of terminators and a 200-point lord in a land raider gorged out into the heart of the enemyy force? None whatsoever. A closely-fought game is fun for both players. A massacre sucks for both.
Although I don't Play choas, but I find it really depends on what your doing with the HQ uint in question. I find That my Shas'O is in the thick of things 90% of the time so I tollhim up and I do good with him in most situations. But if your just gonna have hime hang around for his Ld 10 then keep him bare.
Well Chaos and Tau are really different. You can't really compare the two of them. It's like comparing apples and oranges. The fact that you can spend easyly 250 pts on 2 models then tool up your aspiring champions for 50 points each (generally I have 4) can make the difference between having 50 models in a 1500 pts army and having only 30...Originally Posted by MiketehFox
Also Tau are not the thing in close combat and I'm not surprised that you put your Shas'O on the front line to protect your weaker/shooty units. Also Tau armies don't tend to be the one outnumbered on the battlefield. In a CSM army every CSM count in the end or we are easyly outgunned and outnumbered. There's too many point sinks (and candy) in this army if you ask me but that's what make the difficulty of being a successful chaos player.