To summon or not to Summon... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member FX Morph's Avatar
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    To summon or not to Summon...

    Hi All,

    I went with a friend to the local club we got here, and instantly got
    hooked on the games they played. It's been 6 months since, and I feel
    confident enough to say that I finally settled on an Army I'd like to
    play. Needless to say that I have gone through 4 possible choices:
    Chaos, Space Marines, Necrons, au and then back to Chaos.

    I've been playing with a Cult of Slaanesh Army in the Fantasy world,
    so most of my choices are based around the Daemonettes and such.

    Here goes:

    HQ: 1 x Chaos Lord (Undivided) with Lightning Claws (Pair)
    Terminator Armour, Spiky Bits, Sorcerer with Gift og Chaos.

    Elite: 4 x Chaos Chosen (Undivided) with CCW + Bolters, Demonic Icon
    1 x Chosen champion (Undivided) with Power Weapon + Bolt Pistol
    Spiky Bits -in-
    Heavy: 1 x Landraider with Smokelaunchers, Dozen Blade, Extra Armour,
    Drige Caster

    Troop: 8 x Thousand Sons with CCW + Bolters, Slow and Purposfull
    1 x Tzeensch hampion with Power Weapon + Bolt Pistol,
    Sorcerer with Doom Bolt

    Troops: 15 x Daemonettes

    Heavy: 5 x Chaos Havocs (Undivided) with 2 x Autocannon, 2 x Missle
    Launchers, Tank hunters


    What I have to play around with from my Cult of Slaanesh army is:

    Fast: 5 x Daemonettes on Steeds


    Well, that is it. Basic strategy around this is that I rush foward
    with the Landraider, pop some smokelaunchers and disembark the Chosen.
    Next round I summon the Daemonettes. What still can't igure out is
    that I know you don't use the scatter die, but do you still roll for
    instability, and how do you determine where they land then. Is it a
    free choice from my part? If so, Kewl!

    Anyway, let me know if it is worth it, keeping in mind that I like
    to use the Daemonettes for there 3 attacks and -1 to their opponents
    Initative...

    "...there can be no greatness, without a hint of insanity!"
    - Aristotle

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Joker's Avatar
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    Ok, here goes:

    Your Lord is ok, but I would give him a personal icon so he can summon daemons himself.

    After that it gets tricky.

    I understand you want the chosen so you can have the icon that lets you carry your deamons trapped inside and then summon them on turn 1, but they don't need a landraider. It's just too expensive pointswise. Plus summoning occurs before the movement phase so you won't be able to drive up and dump down some daemons. I personally would leave this whole unit out and just make troops with icons in rhino's! Once again though, summoning occurs before the move phase so keep that in mind.

    Your thousand sons are considered elites because your Lord is Undivided. They only count as troops if the Lord is also given the mark of Tzeentch.

    If you got rid of the landraider and replaced it with a rhino for your chosen (or just dropped that squad entirely!) you should have points to insert 2 or more (five to eight man) troop squads kitted out as you desire. That covers your troop requirements and lets you keep your elites.

    The daemonettes are fine, but it is sometimes difficult to cram 15 daemons under the pie-plate so I would go with 2 squads of eight if you could, or one of 7 and one of 8 if you have to. Plus if you gave your Lord a personal icon and your troop choices icons also you now have 2 or more target locations for your daemons which is handy.

    I would bring the daemonettes on steeds if you have the points, since you have the models, otherwise bikers or raptors are preferable since they start on the table.

    One question, you are leaning toward Slannesh anyway so why not make a Lord or Daemon Prince of Slannesh? You can still use undivided marines as troop choices and your thousand sons will be elites in any case. Plus you get cool combat drugs as a daemonic gift for your Lord or Prince not to mention he will lower opponents initiative by 1 in close combat!
    Last edited by Joker; April 19th, 2005 at 14:17.

  4. #3
    Member FX Morph's Avatar
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    Wow! There's alot I see I haven't considered. Thanx for the expert advise. The reason why I like to play Slaanesh, is because I have a Cult of Slaanesh in Warhammer Fantasy. I don't know much of the rulez in 40k, but I have read through some of them. I recon I should buy the Chaos Codex and get done with it. My initial I idea behind my Army was to have it be Undivided for more options. I have the 15 Daemonettes and the 5 Daemonettes on Steeds, so I thought I'd be able to play around with them a bit more. One more question. You mentioned that I should consider playing with the Steeded Daemonettes more. Do you summon the Steeded Demonettes also with an Icon Bearer, because thought the arrive the same as reserves. (I should stop listening to kids )

    Doesn't the Undivided Chosen Deamon Icon negate the use of the Scatter Die? That is the whole reason behind them riding up to the enemy, and then the NEXT turn they get summoned. This means the Land Raider is bigger to hide behind, and will take most of the opponents shooting fire. (smoke launchers and extra armour)

    Thanx again for the advice, I'll send another list soon, and you can let me know what you think...
    Last edited by FX Morph; April 20th, 2005 at 11:45.
    "...there can be no greatness, without a hint of insanity!"
    - Aristotle

  5. #4
    Senior Member Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FX Morph
    One more question. You mentioned that I should consider playing with the Steeded Daemonettes more. Do you summon the Steeded Demonettes also with an Icon Bearer, because thought the arrive the same as reserves. (I should stop listening to kids )

    Doesn't the Undivided Chosen Deamon Icon negate the use of the Scatter Die? That is the whole reason behind them riding up to the enemy, and then the NEXT turn they get summoned. This means the Land Raider is bigger to hide behind, and will take most of the opponents shooting fire. (smoke launchers and extra armour)
    All daemons are subject to summoning rules that are identical to reserve/deep strike rules in that you cannot summon them until turn 2 and then you begin by rolling for each individual unit to see if it arrives. There is a summoning table in the chaos codex that progressively gives you a better chance for successful summoning every turn. These chances get even better for favored deamon units, but you will learn more about them when you get your codex.

    There are a couple of ways around these rules.

    The first is the deamon icon which keeps the deamons inside the icon and you can deploy them on turn 1 if you want. (this is the only reason I would use this icon, and only if I were to deploy a fast attack type deamon from it so as to not subject them to enemy fire, otherwise I consider it a waste of points) consider giving the chosen the veteran skill infiltration and then binding your mounted daemonettes to this icon and you have a very potent force to be reconned with!

    The next way to get around the summoning rules involves deferrment. By that I mean that the rules of summoning are very clear that you Must roll for your daemons to arrive begining on turn 2 whether you want them to arrive or not! Since this can be tactically disadvantageous under some circumstances the only options left are to make sure all your icon bearers are inside vehicles until You want the ability to deploy deamons. As long as there are no viable options for deploying your deamons you still keep them in reserve.

    Beware this tactic though because deamon summoning is by no means a foregone conclusion, and delaying their arrival too long can cost you the game! Also if you have 3 deamon units in reserve and one of your icon bearers gets blown out of his rhino and all 3 deamon units make successfull deployment rolls than the scatter dice become your enemy when you have to deploy all 3 around one icon!! OUCH!! The odds are good that you will lose some deamon units this way by having them scatter onto themselves.

    On the subject of landraiders: I don't use one so the only comments I will make about it is that I think they are too expensive $$wise; and pointswise they seem hard pressed to earn their keep. I'm sure others will disagree, and that's their perogative, but I have been successful so far without one. I have the same hangup about terminators, but that's a different story.

    Along those lines I will say this: My favorite Chaos unit, and one that I will Never! make a list above 500 points without including at least one are the obliterators! I believe they are absolutely essential to every successfull army list. And the lists I made that weren't successful didn't have anything to do with any failures of the obliterators I included. They are essentially a heavy support unit that takes up an elite units space!

    As far as the specifics go about the deamonic icon and scattering I don't really remember right off the top of my head (I'm at work and nowhere near my codex) so I won't comment on that yet.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Thyr's Avatar
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    There's another thing to consider with Daemon summoning that haven't been said and that make a difference is that any Daemon unit that are favored, meaning they are as many as the sacred number of the god they serve, you get to had +1 to their summoning roll. That number is 6 for Slaanesh.

    Since they follow the reserve rules you get to roll for a chance to have them enter the game on turn 2, if you're Daemon unit is favored it gets to enter the game on a 3+ instead of a 4 plus. For fast attack units, like Daemonettes on a steed, that makes a good difference.

    Other than that, Joker advice is quite good and I agree about the Land Raider and the Daemon Prince. Also it is true that the chosens are good to take only if you want a standard (wich is questionnable for the points it cost) or if you want to have a Chaos Terminator squad in your army. The other good use for them is to give a retinue to the Lord of your army so he cannot be singled out in close combat. Also you might want to think about taking a Greater Daemon as one of your HQ choice as the Keeper of Secret is an awesome character and quite cheap for what he can do.

    If you want to add a free aspiring champion in your unit they need to be of the favored number (6). Also remember that one of the Emperor's Childrens great strenght is their sonic weaponry, you might want to include some in your squad.

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