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As a recent convert to the diseased legion, having earned my heretic spurs in the service of the Prince of Pleasure, I must take issue with the use of heavy weapons in the Death Guard armies i have seen posted. I know that it is technically allowed, and the GW staff even promote it, but how themed is this? Why would an army with no use or liking for lascannons, etc., mount them on a vehicle? Why would they have the know-how to fix them if they went wrong (I am thinking in campaign terms here)?
Have faith, brother pestilents! A multi-melta makes a fine mess of the False Emperor's finest, especially of mounted on something with daemonic upgrades! The good old plasma cannon is a winner too! What 2+ armour save, Mr Terminator? We do not need the fanciful tools of lesser legions, when we can do all this and more with a few choice plasma cannon/ gun and melta shots. Up close and personal is where we like to be and where most enemies DO NOT want us to be, so stop farting around with a big gun with a big range. GET STUCK IN!!!
I would also like to champion the good old dreadnought. We fight on foot, marching in and giving it to the enemy in the teeth at close range. What better way to mount some punch than to have a bigger, deadlier infantryman alongside? OK, you might have to watch the odd moment of battle frenzy, but tool them up with daemonic possession, mutated hull and parasitic possession and watch them go! My Death Guard pack three dreadnoughts, one with plasma cannon, one with multi-melta and one close combat monster with two close combat weapons. The latter makes a fine mess out of any opposing Chaos lords who try to stop me!
Incidentally, all three are converted from the ordinary "Loyal" dreadnought model, for the following reasons:
1) As the model is plastic, it is easier to chop about;
2) As I wanted each to be unique, then chopping about was definitely the order of the day;
3) The "proper" Chaos model has all the angular, beaded armour look of Chaos, which I feel is far too regular for Nurgle, which I feel should be more blobby and indistinct.
Anyway, if you have read this far, I will return to my point.
A) Heavy weapons just aren't Nurgle, vehicle mounted or no. LEAVE THEM ALONE;
The Death Guard style does not need them, but will find meltas and plasma guns perfectly adequate;
C) There are options in the Death Guard list to thin down multiple enemies (Tyranids, etc.) without recourse to autocannons and the like, so do not feel pressured into toting special weapons for each enemy;
D) There are options in the Death Guard list for dealing with armoured leviathans, so don't feel pressured, etc.
E) The feel of the army is greatly enhanced by limiting the choice to typical options.
Try it out and see for yourself.
First: impressive rant there, interesting to read
Second: i do see the point your trying to make with the close combat/special (not heavy weapon) style the Death Guard are supposed to bring. The downside is to many people rely on shooting from afar, and not enough people appreciate that a melta weapon is much more fun then a lascannon. My iron warriors use CSM squads loaded in rhinos with Bolt Pistols/CC Weapons and 2 melta guns... i love it. Its fun, its tank busting happy, and when I hit, the extra D6 I can get always penetrates. As for the Dreddie's. I'd actually just recommend buying the Chaos one, and bit ordering a CC Weapon for the weapon arm. I did it for my dread, got a really nice Forge world bit and works great, looks great, and brings the chaos feel... however the marine one is easier to chop up, i will agree there.
40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)
it surprises me that you are railing against the use of heavy weapons before you rail against the use of rhinos in nurgle armies.
If we're just talking about nurgle armies, you've got to take into account that it ISNT deathguard all the time, fluffwise. Just as every Noise marine is not necessarily a member of the Emperor's Children Legion (the only exception to this are thousand sons, who can be "rented out" by other legions). Havoc squads, obliterators, and vehicles are from the traitor legion's vast armory, and they just happen to be fighting alongside their bretheren whom have chosen Grandfather Nurgle as their patron.
Deathguard: Mortarion taught his children to fight on foot, relying on their mastery of the bolter. But consider this: vehicle crews in loyalist legions are not given the same training as their infantry counterparts, why should the traitor legions be any different in that respect? I can see the reason for dreadnaughts and defilers fluffwise in a Deathguard army.
In reply to "We Are Legion", all I can say is that EVERYTHING walks in my Death Guard army. I have no vehicles at all, just the three Dreads, the squads and the daemon hangers on, to tag along with a couple of Lords as HQ choices.
In addition, you are quite right in suggesting that Chaos is so varied, but I view this as further strength to the view that choosing a specific power/ legion should mean sticking to the theme of that specific power/ legion. Nurgle, for me, is no heavy weapons and few vehicles (or none in my case, as I stated). If you want lascannons and the rest, drag along some of those Black Legion undecideds, or a few Word Bearer can't-make-up-their-minds. I am sticking with my theme. Allies are something else and another discussion.
in my death guard army i am sticking to the fluff and haveing everything walk it has just has 7 man squads in it, and a havcoc squad or 2 all infiltrateing. I agree with you that if you are going for just one legion then you should stick by the fluff. :p
(><)This is Bunny. Im helping him on his way to world Domination!
A problem a lot of people make with Death Guard armys is trying to use them as a "Shooty" army instead of doing what you can to get them into CC, the first game i had ever seen someone play with the Death Guard was he was trying to outgun the IG, i thought this was insane but his figures looked good..... anyway he lost badly.Second: i do see the point your trying to make with the close combat/special (not heavy weapon) style the Death Guard are supposed to bring. The downside is to many people rely on shooting from afar, and not enough people appreciate that a melta weapon is much more fun then a lascannon. My iron warriors use CSM squads loaded in rhinos with Bolt Pistols/CC Weapons and 2 melta guns... i love it. Its fun, its tank busting happy, and when I hit, the extra D6 I can get always penetrates. As for the Dreddie's. I'd actually just recommend buying the Chaos one, and bit ordering a CC Weapon for the weapon arm. I did it for my dread, got a really nice Forge world bit and works great, looks great, and brings the chaos feel... however the marine one is easier to chop up, i will agree there.
Well you certainly have the right idea of how a Death Guard army should be!
I have 2 dreadnoughts, and a Predator with Lascannons. why? purely for anti-tank purposes, but wait! dont fret about that, because I have an OK idea to WHY I have it. Every time my death guard annihalate a loyal Space marine army, my Nurglings come across a Predator, and decide to hijack it. This will decay it down, until they find another one to replace it. Seems to work fine, and can pack a punch at those damned Monoliths!
Referring to your plastic dreadnoughts, Thats exactly what i've done with mine. want a look?
This one has a Twin-las, but it has interchangeable arms for Plasma Cannons and Heavy Bolters.
I generalls get my Army into close combat. I send a relatively fast Daemo Prince up the line and beat the crap out of people, it's quite cheap and weak, so it will die in a few turns, at which point my Squads are up there.
A) I disagree. as long as there would be an adequate amount of fluff behind it, (or mounted on a dreadnought, as thats actually stated in the Index Astartes!) then it's fine.
Yep. unless you're fighting Necrons with their monoliths, or Imperial guard Russes, in which case you wont get close enough to estroy them.
C) Plague swords all the way!
D) Plague swords all the way!
E) Manreapers all the way!
That is a beautiful Dread, Rob. I love it.
As for the anti-heavy weapon thing, I never thought of DG that way. I figured Khorne was all about small arms fire and slavering, butchering close combats. Death Guard was more of disease type approach - a few little viruses (marines, nurglings, etc) to whittle you down piecemeal, but every so often, a big huge epidemic (Dreads, Preds, etc) breaks out that claims the lives of many fine soldiers.