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From what I understand from the codex, chaos space marines are marines that have been around for thousands of years and sometimes have daemonic blessing/enhancements.....space marines just have the genetic enhancements (As do the chaos marines).......wouldnt this make the chaos space marines ALOT better than space marines in all aspects of fighting...I know that chaos marines get the veteran abilities...but come on....that doesnt make up for their age and daemon-stuff..........
maybe they just do that like the IG (come on....3 imperial gaurds realistically cannot take 2 marines, but stats wise...they can....though an army with 500 gaurdsmen is also unrealistic)
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As usual the fluff for marine is nothing like actual game play. One reason I can think of the chaos space marines not being a hell of alot better is because the space marine have improved their armour and weapons. Their power armour is on Mk8 now where as the heresy armour, even with chaostic blessings is on Mk4 I think. Also, both armies have had time to improve their tactics and wher cahos has been cahotically changed (sometimes for the worst rather than better) space marine get to start on a new slate with every zygot.
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I'd be happy to answer your question. Firstly, not all chaos marines have been around for thousands of years. The original Horus Heresy marines, yes, the majority of them are thousands of years old. However, the more organised chapters do gain new recruits (this has been proven by me and others countless times please do a forum search as I am not getting into this argument again). These new recruits would not be as advanced in daemonic gifts as their older brethren but as time goes by they gain more and more favor.
You must make the distinction between the fluff and the game. In the game, several guardsmen could take down a marine. In the fluff, stories, novels, etc. It's possible for a marine to wade through hundreds of enemies before going down. Chaos marines, are even more powerful in the fluff. However, many chaos marines (the more fanatical like WE) are not as tactically or mentally sound as they once were. And though they are very tough to take down, regular marines can do so through carefully planned tactics and strategies. Plus, the more fanatcal/less organised marines don't always travel in large numbers. Also, it's very rare (fluff wise) that you will encounter chaos marines. The average gaurdsmen will never ever see one and has barely even heard of them.
So yes, in fluff terms, chaos marines are some of the baddest mothers out there. But you must make the distiction. If the rules reflected the fluff, each chaos marine would cost over 200+ points! And that wouldn't be very fun now would it? On a side note, WD published some fun rules to play that gave regular marines the stats they get in the fluff. It was called "movie marine" or something like that. Each marine was around 100pts. If you want to make up your own rules for a fun game with a friend. Feel free. Though make sure to tell him 1st!
My post is a little off topic, but it has to do with the fluff between chaos and regular marines:
Landspeeders are one of the great inventions of the space marines. Why chaos has not put the idea together for themselves is a complete and total mystery. I mean, come on: Chaos has built and corrupted termis, generals, bikers, assault squads...why not landspeedrs? In all, I believe it has to do with the game more than the fluff. Giving landspeeders to chaos would definitely be overpowering.
Theres also the fact that in fluff Chaos marines rarely travel among their legions unless it is a black crusade - often four or five space marines and supporting mutants and cultists is enough to invade a continent, or even a planet. In game terms, this could easily be owned by most other armies, due to the sake of balance - that's one thing to remember - balance screws with the fluff, but makes the game a lot better.
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Space marines can't take special skills without using traits, chaos space marines can take skills, I think this represents that for the most part a chaos space marine would have been around longer.
Then of course you have the marks of chaos, which represent chaos space marines who choose to worship a certain chaos god and fight a certain way. Most would say that a marked marine (not sure about undivided) is better than your normal space marine.
The daemon stuff and all that is represented by the possessed marines and the daemonic gifts that HQ and aspiring champions can take, if space marines have anything similar it would be considered wargear or something along those lines.
Keep in mind that when you're playing the game a model removed may or may not be "killed," it's just no longer able to fight. So while three guardsmen would be hard pressed to actually kill a marine they could take him out of commision for a bit with a lucky hit or something like that.
I wish chaos had land speeders, we'd have to use something else for the assault cannon though, maybe a reaper autocannon?
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Landspeeder tech was refined, and more widely used by marines after the heresy. There was not too many before hand. Theoretically some chaos marine speeders are still lying around, some of their tanks are the originals after all. Your right, in the game speeders, scouts, and such, are given to marines to compensate for the advantages that chaos has: daemons, skills, etc.Originally Posted by boydgarrett
If you would like to have a chaos speeder in a game, use the Vehicle Design Rules. These can only be used in friendly games of course, and require your opponents permission.
The basic chaos and space marine are the same with two exceptions:Originally Posted by jtm
Chaos basic troopies are overall better than space basic troopies.Actually, I'd rather just have the assault cannon, which is perhaps the best weapon in the game for it's price.Originally Posted by jtm
Don't forget the one major bonus that Loyalist marines have over Chaos - And They Shall Know No Fear. That's why they're more expensive. Luckily, we get around it by having marks that either make it nearly impossible to fail a check, or just plain make us Fearless.Originally Posted by boydgarrett
One distinct advantage Chaos has over Loyalist that hasn't been mentioned is the ability to freely take Bolt Pistol + CCW weapons without forcing a disadvantage upon ourselves.
In the end, I think it all balances out, but you'll never see that just by looking at the straight stat lines.
How do the tanks compare?
I keep hearing things like mutated hull and daemonic possession and things like that does chaos have better tank upgrades than loyalists or are these just different names for extra armor and power of the machine spirit? oh and how do the points costs compare as well
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