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I watched a game on Saturday between Eldar and Khorne. The Eldar player infiltrated a squad 12" away from a squad of Berzerkers- behind a massive rock that blocked LOS. The first round went to Khorne, and yep, you guessed it, the Berzerkers frenzied and charged the Eldar infiltrators. I doubled checked the chaos codex, just to make sure that Berzerkers were required to charge a squad, even if they could not see them, and the rules did not address this specific issue; but the rules did not give any reason to indicate that the Berzerkers would not charge.
I think they can smell an enemy miles away...
No, just kidding. Is this not one of theese occasions when you wish someone used their common sense? Even if we have rules for most eventuallities it's tricky to make them cover every aspect of the game. One could make it a houserule, that they would need line of sight that is. The dreads have that requirement for their frenzy, so it makes sense.
It's the same on the thralls-do they occupy a seat in a rhino, some say they don't since it's not in the book:wacko: .
Whenever I play with berserkers (which is rare seenin as how I use Black Legion mechanised infantry) I just go by nearest target with LOS
This isn't legal ... want to know why?Originally Posted by boydgarrett
An infiltrating squad can infiltrate 12" away from an enemy, this is true. However, they can't be in LOS to the enemy - meaning, the Khorne player had to have charged straight through LOS-blocking terrain of some sort, or the Eldar player illegally infiltrated his squad.
Berzerkers can't charge what they can't see, and if something is LOS blocking, I can't see them being able to charge through it. That's like saying they could charge through a Size 3 rock to get to a squad behind it - it doesn't work.
p. 47 of the Chaos Codex under the Mark of Khorne, concerning blood frenzy, "On a 1 or 2 they advance a normal move +D6" towards the nearest enemy instead of moving normally."Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis
It does not say anything about needing LOS. Personally, I'm of the opinion they need LOS, but my opinions don't change the rules.
Also, nowhere does it say that a blood frenzying squad must move in a straight line. In the case in question, the berzerkers simply moved around the terrain.
That would make sense, to move around the object. However, they still can't charge through the LOS-blocking terrain.
So, if you want to use the rules that they don't need LOS, then it could be possible for them to charge a unit behind LOS-blocking terrain, but they'd have to move around the terrain - they would not be able to charge in a straight line.
Nicely pointed out, boyd.
Easy situation to imagine. They're playing the rules "if you're behind terrain then you can't be seen, but if you're in terrain you can see 6" in or out". So he infiltrates behind a piece of terrain, blocking LoS. Then the Berserkers move in. They can now see 6" out, so they can charge the squad behind it. No big deal.
Beasts of Chaos (4000)
Chaos Marines (3000)
That's for woods and tank traps and the like. In this example it was a rock, you can't see through 6inches of rock, you either have LoS or you don't. But they could move into a position that gave them LoS and then assaulted. The debate is about whether or not he could do that as the squad itself couldn't see the squad. And in the case of a forest, you could move and charge through the actual terrain and not go around.
I can read now!
I bet they CAN smell (or sense...somehow) enemies, especially enemies only 12 inches away....It makes sense that they can attack..well...through the rock. It would just count as them charging above/around...that doesnt require enough movement to classify it as another inch of required movement...
"Kill a thousand men, and they will hate you. Kill a million men, and they will queue to face you. But kill a single man, and they will see monsters and devils in every shadow. Kill a dozen men, and they will scream and wail in the night."
- Zso Sahaal, Talonmaster of the Night Lords