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I'm an IG player, and I'm interested in converting a couple squads of CSM I have in the basement into Nurgle plague marines. :x I would like to experiment with 1000 pts and see if I can make a competitive list.
But looking at the codex, I am not sure how to make a Nurgle army very effective. The troops seem pretty expensive and kind of ineffective, the lack of anti-tank seems like a major drawback, and I keep wondering if the best way to play chaos is just to fly in with a demon prince and summon a hundred demons, forget about the marines altogether.
I was thinking about using deepstriking obliterators to take care of the tanks and cause some confusion, back them up with a speedy prince, and then summon the plaguebearers. But where do the plague marines fit in? They would be way behind unless they were all in rhino's.
How do other Nurglings deal with this? Are rhino's the only answer? I would only start a list if I could find an effective way to use the plague marines, since they're the coolest part if you ask me.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
All good concerns. To let you know, I came to the dark side through Nurgle, and have loyally stuck by Death Guard ever since. The first thing about playing chaos is to get out of the Imperium framework of mind (both fluffwise and tactically). Deathguard, for one, is an infantry-based army, which, as an I.G. player, is right up your ally. However, where I.G. prospers in numbers, D.G. tends to use small stout squads that can hit with force and stand up to the counter attack. Having a +1 toughness is what gives this army its staying power.
How does D.G. deal with tanks and the likes? The answer: 1- infiltrate & melta-guns. 2- predators and dreadnoughts.
Read the codex first. Each of the Chaos armies are vastly different, especially when compared to the chapters of space marines.
Tactics on D.G.:
Squad configuration #1: 7 man infiltrating squads w/ a power fist & plasma or melta guns.
Squad configuration #2: 7 man infiltrating havoc squads w/ a power fist & plasma guns.
D.G. is the most effective within rapid fire range. Depending on your opponent, you will either sit back and rapid fire, letting your opponent come to you; or try and get into c.c. as soon as possible- as with Tau and a ranged S.M. army. The +1 toughness allows D.G. to successfully endure what other marine armies cannot; namely, they can withstand ranged attacks (eh, at least better than most other armies).
Key elements to D.G.:
Infiltrate: Cheap way to get your army as close as possible. I infiltrate my entire army (1500 points: 6 plague marine squads, 1 plague havoc squad, 1 chaos lt with manreaper- no daemons). It's not very interesting, but it's a tournament army, so it's build to win. My casual builds are more exciting, but they tend to do funny things, eh, like lose; but that's why it's casual. Actually, most players enjoy casual games better than tournaments, because they get to use all the fun tactics and models that are not necessarily the best choice. For this reason I always suggest playing what you want, unless you are specifically looking to build a tournament quality army. Of course, tournament quality and casual quality are not mutually exclusive, but alas, most of the time they are. Rambling now...
Power fists: Coupled with the +1 toughness, D.G. can stand up to most things in c.c. (save for genestealers).
Melta guns: Primarily used in troop squads for vehicle & monstrous creature management.
Plasma guns: Primarily used in havoc squads; secondary in troops squads (I usually give at least a third of my troops squads plasma guns, because it helps to manage the swarms- I see alot of swarms in my environment). The plasma gun is vital for D.G. It kills expensive infantry (termis, h.q., bikes), landspeeders and other light vehicles, monstrous creatues. It's a good all-around weapon. Don't be too concerned with the 'gets hot' factor. It only kills a marine 1/18 times you fire it. I always make my points back and then some.
If you are looking to use daemons, then consider Khorne or Slaanesh, because the plaguebearers are hardly worth their cost. They are decent against monstrous creatures, but they cannot handle the counter attack. If you are wanting to use a daemon-based army, then Word Bearers (W.B.) is the way to go.
Obliterators: Alas, Death Guard is not permitted to use these pups. To let you know, only chaos undivided and chaos armies with no mark at all can use obliterators.
Last edited by Rabbit; December 1st, 2005 at 04:14.
Hey,Originally Posted by Abraham LincolnIf you start with those two squads, you just need a Nurgle Lieutenant for a legal list.I'm interested in converting a couple squads of CSM I have in the basement into Nurgle plague marines...I would only start a list if I could find an effective way to use the plague marines, since they're the coolest part if you ask me.
Unless you like the Death Guard 'special' rules, you can take vanilla Marines later.That's how they deal because that's how they *have* to deal. DG are super-restrictive.Originally Posted by boydgarrett
That said, Nurgle lists are the only ones I can see taking Terminators in under 2000pts.
If you like the models, two or three move-and-shoot Reaper cannon are nice.There're a couple of drawbacks to a pure DG list as opposed to a 'Nurgle' list.7 man infiltrating squads w/ a power fist & plasma
Death Guard limits you to Bolter armament and encourages Sacred Number comp.
You want 8 or 10 models in Squads you're going to dedicate to CC roles.
(All your Squads should be formed in even numbers for Scoring Unit purposes.)
Firebase-type Bolter Squads need only be 6-strong to adequately defend your DZ.
That's where your small Squads of super-tough Plague Marines should be.
Remember, the larger Squads of Infiltrating Marines may take BP/ CCW combos.DG excels at the first. Their T effectively gives you an extra turn 'out of cover'.you will either sit back and rapid fire, letting your opponent come to you; or try and get into c.c. as soon as possible
They suck mightily at the second, as DG rules limit their mobility for 'fluff' reasons.
In certain missions and against certain armies, this restraint is a heartbreaker.Cheap for Alphas, maybe. But you can't take Plaguers in an AL list.Infiltrate: Cheap way to get your army as close as possible.
7 Infiltrating DG troopers cost 18pts *more* than 8 Infiltrating BP/CCW Marines.
Don't get me wrong - I play DG - but they're not a real morale booster for beginners.
Most DG armies look cool, but are pricey, and require finesse to win consistently.
If you're just starting out, build your Nurgle Leader and 2 Plague Squads first.
Give the Plaguers Champs with Plague Sword and Meltabombs. Done.
Fill out your list later with unmarked BP/CCW Marines and a Tank or two.
When you're ready to make the jump from 1000pts to 1500, pick a team.
By that time you should have some victories behind you, and be ready for the call.
400pt startup list:
H = MoN Lieutenant
T = 2x6 MoN CSM, PGun
Champ, PW, MB
Good luck, and have fun!
Good observations and good comments. And your right, Abraham Lincoln said 'Nurgle army' and not D.G.. Still, I went off death guard, because his comments seemed to suggest that he meant D.G., rather than a Nurgle based army. At any rate I could be wrong, and it would not be the first time :sleep: .This holds true, if you're going to have 3-4 c.c. squads. D.G players that take 5-6 should not have a problem in c.c., especially in an all-troop configuration. Wait, let me step back and tell you my assumptions: My advise was based upon a non-vehicle based D.G., which I should have stated from the beginning.When I'm looking at D.G. in c.c., I'm also calculating- in part at least- the round of rapid fire before they enter c.c. Now, this being said, even without the round of rapid fire, I've never had much problem in c.c.. I think there is a very simple reason for this: I take as many marines as I can, which allows for a swarm-like effect- make sense? The only one I fear in c.c. is the genestealer swarm. In fact 7 plague marines can stand up to 40 gaunts without serious loses (not sure if this is something to brag about, gaunts are pretty weak).Originally Posted by PlayaEighteen points is still cheap. It's not as cheap al A.L., but that does not necessarily mean it's too expensive.Originally Posted by PlayaReally? D.G. is one of the most forgiving armies, because they are so tough.Originally Posted by Playa
Thanks for the feedback, and sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Playa, you were right that D.G. isn't a very good morale-booster for a chaos noob. Luckily I have the IG to cheer me up (ORDNANCE). So far I have 3 squads of pm's, 2 rhino's, a predator and a lord. I think that the biggest challenge is to intimidate opponents into coming to me, like you said. I play an ork player a lot who likes to sit back and pummel my marines... it is not very funny to be out-shot by orks. Witrh ample terrain, we can slink our way up the field and once stuck in, we generally don't lose.
As far as I can tell, the next addition should either be another squad of marines or another pred/dread.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
Originally Posted by boydgarrett
Can DG take raptors or not?
sorry, was just looking around and the question was in my head for a while.