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Anyone who knows ...
1) Veteran skills for ICs
Can a Chaos Lt or Lord have more than one skill? I can't find anything in the codex that says otherwise.
EDIT: Answered. He can only have 1 IF he's got a mark.
2) Bike weapons
Caluin already advanced the opinion that even if a bike-riding IC takes more than one cc weapon, the character doesn't get +1 A. I just want confirmation. Caluin, I am not questioning you, but I wanna know why that is. It is the same for DE? The bike description for SM doesn't say anything of the sort.
Last edited by Sabrewulf; December 16th, 2005 at 17:10.
1) If he has a Mark of Chaos, then no. If he doesn't have a Mark of Chaos, then yes. Says that one in the codex, I believe.
2) It says in the Chaos Space Marines Bike entry in the Wargear section that the character riding a bike may only use a single one-handed weapon at a time, or something along those lines. Basically, you can't use both hands, because it is stated that the Biker needs one hand to control the bike. This is the same for DE Reaver Jetbikes, I believe, but it is not the case with Space Marines, as you said.
However, never ever take things from Space Marines and think that they apply to Chaos; that's like someone taking the rules from SM and applying them to Necrons. Just doesn't work like that.
That's what I was lookin' for.Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis
And no, I'm not tryin' to apply rules for a diff army to mine. I wanted to know if there was some general ruling by GW. Seeing as chaos and space marines have so many other units that are exactly the same.
In 3ed you had to have one hand free to control the bike, in 4ed this is no longer the case. However chaos space marine bikes still require one hand free to use them as it says so in the codex. The best you can hope for is a FAQ update or errata.
Don't chaos bikes give you +1attack to begin with though?
I can read now!
Indeed they do.
GW is trying to make the Space Marine Bikes just as good as the Chaos. Thus the reason they are allowed to weild 2 weapons. Personally I think it makes no sense and they should have just applied the same rule to SM bikes by saying that Bikes just give a +1 attack and can only wieild one weapon
jtm:yes chaos bikes do have an extra attack on their profile when compared to space marines, its to take into acount for the spikes on the bike (not to be confused with spikey bits)
anybody got a page number for the space marine bike rule? (for using 2 different weapons)
40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)
Chaos Codex p.33: "Note that they (bikers)may not use an additional close combat weapon due to teh need to control the bike."Originally Posted by MouseC112
Is this what you need?
That right there is the perfect explanation of what happened. There was a general 3rd edition rule that got dropped, but since our Codex specifically mentions that we may use only one hand, we're stuck. Same goes for the Dark Eldar.Originally Posted by jtmYes, that's why it's not such a big deal. It all balances out in the end.Originally Posted by jtmNo, and you won't find one. The reason being is that it's a non-existant rule now.Originally Posted by MouseC112
It works like this - all infantry based models (which includes Bikers) recieve +1 attack for being armed with two one handed weapons. In 3rd Edition, there was a rule prohibiting bikes from claiming that bonus, but it's gone now. So all bikers are now allowed to claim +1 attack, unless specifically prohibited in their Codex, such as are Chaos bikers.
Edit -Contrary to popular belief, I don't mind being questioned. I have been known to be wrong before. So long as it's done respectfully and intelligently, I don't mind a good rules debate, question, or clarification.Originally Posted by Sabrewulf
hmmm... fliping through the codex space marines, althought the bike section dosn't say that the unit can't take 2 CCWs it dosn't give the squad the option of taking them.
Space marine bike squad vs CSM bike squad.
so comparing 4 space marine bikes with term honor sergant with 2 CCWs VS,
4 CSM bikes with a asp champ, The CSM's have 3 more attacks then the SM counterpart, with the CSM bikes being 4 points more expensive. (this is with default weapons and only enought wargear to get the sarg 2 ccw.)
Given that CSM bike sqads cam be up to 10 modles large, where as SM's ar limited to 4, CSM bikes in squads are clearly better*.
SM captain Biker vs CSM Chaos lord Biker
Utilizing the extra CCW on the Captain on the bike, he can get his attacks up to 4, but has to pay for the CCWs from wargear.
The Chaos lord gets 4 attacks just for being on a bike.
This makes the Captain 2 points more expensive(with basic wargear), for the same profile. Again, Chaos bikes come out superiour.
Chaos bikes are still where it's at, in so far as CC ability. No need for a change to the standard bikes at all. I hope they stay the same when GW eventually rmakes the CSM codex (just prior to the release of 5th Edition most likey).
*This isn't taking into account attack bikes. Which is one of the few SM units, that i'm actually envious of.