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And by them I mean a Gozilla Army of Nids (all MC) and the Cheezy army of a Avatar, 3 Wraithlords, and a tricked out Seer Council. How would two Chaos players beat an army like this?
BTW, the Chaos thread has gotten stale and with this I am just trying to get the creative juices moving.
I would suggest lots of high-strength low AP weapons, like lascannons, missle launchers, and plasma guns.
I think ordnance, flamers and heavy bolters could win you the day. Ordnance because it will cut down the numbers pretty quickly and from what you say about the amount of models they have, unless it scatters off table, your guaranteed to hit something. Flamers because you can decimate Nid squads with these. Heavy Bolters for the pure fact they fire more rounds than any other chaos gun and I think their AP value would ignore both Eldar and Nid saves. So in other words id suggest-
-Little to no wargear other than weapons
-Lots of template weapons
-Defilers, Predators with heavy bolter side sponsons, Regular Rines and Havocs
Thats my suggestion, slightly crazy but make sure you post a battle report for this battle, sounds like it's going to be fun
My Arena Champions: Kharn'eth The Bloodcleaver and Gorzag Iron Jaw
both play IW, each have 9 oblits and 4 Defilers.
You Can't Stop the Eighp
Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P
Well reason an army like this gives me the willies are the multiple wounds. Only really effective Chaos player that I've heard is Death Guard and their plague knife, auto kill and all.
Daemons, lots of daemons. Nurglings, Plaguebearers, and Daemonettes especially. Nurglings because they're good at holding things up, Plaguebearers because of daemonic venom, and Daemonettes because of rending. Maybe lead them off with a Greater Daemon so you don't need to worry so much about icons.
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Honestly I'd love to fight this godzilla army, you'll have numbers on your side for once with Chaos.
Everything that has already been mentioned plus:
Chaos havok squads with 4 plasma guns.
Aspiring champs with powerfists in every large squad.
Daemonettes. Big squads of them. Works best in Word Bearers because you can take lots, as well as lots of CSMs, but on the charge a full pack will get 30 attacks of which 5 will be rending, killing one of those Carnifexes. Would kill Wraithlords even quicker.
Plague Bearers. Full pack. Same deal as Daemonettes, but will go at the same time as the Warithlords. Will get 30 attacks, 15 hits and 7.5 wounds, which should probably kill the Wraithlord, although it might take 2 rounds. Don't throw them against the Carnifexes though. The odds with the 2+ are worse and the Carnis get more wounds. Still the rot ability is great if your opponent has bulked up on either guardians or gaunts.
I'm sure you can think of your own DP combos, but with Stature, Speed, Strength, Mutation, Furious Charge, DarkBlade and CCW, you can have WS 6 Str9 I6 A6 on a 12" charge which should hit a Wraithlord with 4 and wound with 3, taking them out. Giving the guy a plague sword instead will lower his Str to 7, but would also lower his cost and give you that chance to take out the big guys with one wound.
As for the Seer Council, there's only a few things that can be sure of killing them, but again it calls for Daemon weapons, such as a DP with the Dreadaxe killing them.
If you go Tzeentch, you might consider the talisman and the warp blade, but due to the range on the blade its hard to use properly.
A Dreadnought tooled up for HtH with a 2nd CCW can kill any of those godzilla models if he's not shot up first. Admittedly, the Wraithlord will probably kill him simultaneously.(If you keep him out of range of your own men and out of sight of the enemy, you increase the chance of him flipping out, charging an extra d6" and DOUBLING his attacks. So thats 3 doubled to 6, plus 1 for charging, plus 1 for extra DCCW. Giving you 8 Str 10 attacks at a cheap price. He's still heavy weapon fodder though.
Last edited by Grey; December 17th, 2005 at 15:57.
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the 'Nids arent what scare me... its the Seer council and fortune. And all that good stuff that they do. Coupled with the fex's and wraithlords. The only thing worse than that would be a Nightbringer with fortune :ninja:
Point is, you just need a monkey load of shots, with as high of AP as you can. Either that or just get into close combat with power weapons... and thats about it. Or if your me, you could take Tzeentch Possessed all with gift of chaos and talons Carnifexes dont really like when they turn into 20pt spawns :w00t:
You Can't Stop the Eighp
Had Tzeentch before I knew how to play :P
The big issue you're facing is that the Tyranids and Eldar complement each other extremely well. Eldar bring a ton of high strength, low AP weaponry which the Tyranids lack. Tyranids bring an extreme Close Combat threat, which Eldar cannot effectively produce. Combine them, and you have a serious problem.
So how about we start with what NOT to take?
Dreads. Worthless. Not only will they get blown apart by Eldar weaponry, they'll never survive a single round of close combat with a Hive Tyrant. The Tyrant has better initiative, and has the 2D6 penetration on his side.
Expensive Daemon Princes, especially statured. Exactly for the same reasons as the Dread - he'll be a giant target for Eldar weaponry, and won't stand a chance against a well built Tyrant, or your basic Carnifex. A cheap Lord is still a good idea, just don't go overboard on him.
Land Raiders. Duh.
Predators with Mutated Hull. Predators with Daemonic Possession are still a solid choice, but don't bother with Mutated Hull. It's pointless against the Eldar, and Tyranids will scoff at it. Daemonic Possession is key however - it'll keep it firing in the face of the Gunfexes that may or may not show up.
So some ideas -
Obliterators. A fair idea, but I don't know how well they'll work in reality. If you can keep them sheltered from the Eldar guns, I think they'll work great. The Tyranids will fear them, but Eldar will destroy them.
Have you tried Plague Marines against them yet? Arm each squad with two Plasma Guns and a Plague Sword + Daemonic Strength. That gives you a fighting chance at wounding/killing the TMCs, and a solid core to fight the Eldar with. If you have extra points laying about, some good Psychic powers would be Gift of Chaos, or Doombolt.
Next, you might want to try some Predators with TLLC and Lascannon sponsons to combat the Wraithlords. Try to give them some cover, and hope they survive. If they do, they can turn their AP2 guns to the TMCs. This is sort of a risk, though - the Eldar stand a good chance at taking them all out very quickly.
The key to taking out Seer Council is to swamp them with armour saves. The more bolters you can bring, heavy bolters, and autocannons, the better.
Honestly, you're going to have a very tough fight on your hands. The Eldar and Tyranids each have explicit weaknesses, but together they complement each other well. Remember that a TMC list is slow, with the exception of the one Winged Tyrant. If you can bring enough AP2 weapons to bear (and hope they survive the Eldar shooting phase), you can easily take them out before they become dangerous.
You can take heart though - a genestealer list would be much more dangerous for you to face.
I don't have much experience against the eldar build you mentioned, but here are some thoughts about godzilla:
The godzilla army might also be configured with ranged options. In my neck of the woods, there is a zilla player who does precisely this. He creates a wall of monstrous creatures that fire an ungodly number of shots, followed closely behind by 2 squads of genestealers. He also brings to the table those bug psychers that have a 10str 2ap (I believe). The last of these bugs has completely discouraged me away from vehicles. They are brutal.
Plaguebearers: These pups are not that great, even against m.c.. While they wound a decent amount of the time they have no armor penetration. M.c. bugs have 3+ and even 2+ armor saves. You have to find away through the armor.
Daemonettes: As already mentioned they are a decent choice. The thing is, however, they will only be dealing wounds from their rending ability. They are too weak to do much else.
I would suggest looking at an all-troop D.G. army for the following reasons:
1- good high strength, low a.p. weapons.
2- starcannons are much less affective against a 5toughness (in fact, most weapons are hindered by the increased toughness).
3- Good at close range and in c.c.
Usually I try (believe it or not) to engage the m.c. into c.c., because the number of ranged attacks they fire do significantly more casualties to my side than their c.c. abilities. Honestly, if the zilla army has ranged options on the m.c., then they are not that difficult to take down in c.c. It may take a couple of rounds, but the bugs lose in the end. The most trouble I have the the zilla army is the genestealers.