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Ok,it dosent sound right but this thousand son player was saying like he shoots like 30-40 lascannons (bolt of change) per turn.I was like ok breif reading through the rules,now whole sqaud of like chosen terminators can take Sorcerer ability,not that's like 19 points for a chosen termiantor,10 points for the mark,30 points for boc,plus auto cannons thats 79 points a damn terminator,on top of that having the sorcerer taking 4 thralls.I mean this can't be right,am I reading this wrong.Like in every sqaud of troops the socercer with 4 thralls can get like two shots of bolt of change per turn.
So every terminator can like shoot more than 2 Bolt of change weapons,and reaper auto cannons.So if he had like 7 termaintors,that's like shooting 14 shots of like lascannon/missle into you plus auto cannons.This sounds,overated I mean hardly anything can survive not even tanks with that many heavy weapons.Then if you try to shoot them,its almost impossible to kill them because they two damn wounds each.
OK, there are a few things wrong with your thoughts:
i) Bolt of Change is slightly worse than a lascannon, as it is only strength 8, not 9.
ii) Bolt of Change is "used in the shooting phase instead of firing a weapon" as it says in the Book of Tzeentch, so you can't shoot Bolt of Change and a Reaper Autocannon.
iii) Even if each Chosen has 4 Thralls they can only sacrifice one per turn, so they can only do 2 BoC a turn.
iv) There are two types of terminators for Tzeentch: normal terminators or Rubric terminators. Normal terminators are Tzeentch Chosen with terminator armour. These are the terminators that have access to psychic powers. Rubric terminators are upgraded CSM that have two wounds each, though no access to psychic powers bar ACs who are sorcerers (but then have only one wound).
So we have:
Chosen + MoT + Terminator Armour + BoC + 2x Thrall = 86 points
A squad of 9 Tzeentch Terminators that is as terrifying as you make out would be 774 points. Even 5 would be 430 points. For 5 models that is obscenely expensive, considering AP2 will rip them apart. Something like that can't be taken reasonably in games below 3000 points, and probably not until 3500-4000 would 9 be taken. Even then, they're taking up 1/6 of the points in the army. And at that many points everyone bar Necrons will have plenty to take out 5-8 terminators with. And what enemy squad would need 18 BoC being thrown at them? Only against a Titan is that kind of firepower useful.
Beasts of Chaos (4000)
Chaos Marines (3000)
well Im new to learning about thousand sons,but that is still crazy.Well the weapon is short range,their slow but have two wounds each.What would you say about their strength(what is shooty-im guessing) and weakness's of TS.
Well, if they all have two wounds, then they can't have that many Bolts of Change. Any 1K Sons Terminator model with two wounds will always be armed with a Powerweapon, Combi-bolter and nothing else - no exceptions (other than HQ units, obviously). So at some point, your friend got his rules wrong and cheated you.Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper46
If you really think 1K Sons armies are all that powerful, you're sorely mistaken. They take the most finesse and talent to play of all the cult armies due to the low model count and lack of weaponry options. If he has a power unit of Chosen with Thralls and Bolts of Change, then it's guaranteed that he has little else backing up his army.
It'd also help if we knew what army you use to combat him.
Well I play Dark Angels and Ravenwing,DA are stubborn more of a balanced army of being shooty and counter assualt,ravenwing are very fast/very very shooty.It does state in the codex for 1k sons "They will replace their normal weaponry with power weapons and combi-bolters.Only the Aspiring Champion of the unit (if there is one) may further upgrade his weaponry." So let me get this straight,a 1k son chosen in terminator armour,with two wounds,can't take no reapers AC,but they can still take 4 thralls and BoC,so how does that not make not have many of BoC?because it does state that if you give the chosen MoT,then they have access tot he Sorcerer ability and Armoury.
You're right, it does say that. But notice how that entire section relates only to upgrading regular Rubric CSM to Rubric Terminators. Only Rubric marines or Rubric Terminators recieve the +1 wound, and they can't access the armoury.Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper46That's right. If they have two wounds, that means they're a Rubric, and Rubrics cannot change their weaponry at all and cannot access the armoury at all. The champion can still access the armoury and take the BoC + Thralls, but he's still only a one wound model (Granted, with a giant meat shield for a unit), but that's only two BoC shots per turn for four turns.Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper46
Chosen Terminator units can carry Reaper Autocannons, but they can't be upgrade to Champions should they do so, and they still can't fire them the same round as they throw a Bolt of Change.I didn't state that it wasn't possible to level many Bolts of Change - I stated that he can't have two wound models doing it. Sorcerer models cannot have more than one wound outside of the two HQ units that he might take.Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper46
There are checks and balances for armies like this - if your opponent wants to have a lot of one thing, he'll have to sacrifice another.
Ok,so when I talk to him with the disappointment I need to show him in detail proof he can't take it.Thing is I can't find like a words like "if he takes rubric sign,he can't access the armoury" the two parts are linking to that give a strong defination is in the CSM units and CM section.CSM units-"Rubric sign are midnless automatons unable to learn" and CM -"Apart from Aspiring Champions all models must use Bolters as their standard weaponry and cannot upgrade any weaponry unless they are upgraded to Terminators."(it dosent state if their rubric they can't take the two wounds) can you show me where this is
Well, it's a standard rule that only Champions of a unit can access the armoury. Page 57 of the Chaos Codex ammends that rule for units of Chosen, Possessed, and ICs by allowing them all to access the Psychic Powers and Equipment section. But in that same paragraph, there is no mention of them recieving the Rubric sign which is what gives a model the +1 wound.Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper46
The only time the Rubric is mentioned is when speaking about Chaos Space Marine units. They're the only ones that recieve the Rubric and the extra wound. And as we know, standard "rank and file" models cannot access the armoury.It doesn't have to state anything about the Rubric - it was stated in an earlier paragraph that CSM units recieve the Rubric. But if you keep reading the paragraph you cite you'll see that when Terminators are upgraded they have specific weapons they must take and only the Champion (if present) may upgrade further.Originally Posted by Grim_Reaper46
Chosen follow none of those rules - they have their own paragraph that tells you how to treat them with the Mark of Tzeentch. It's all summed up in three words - "No special restrictions." They all become sorcerers, and do not recieve the Rubric Sign.