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People shy away from Chosen because they are expensive, but there are some very nasty configurations that remain unavailable without them.
I've heard some suggestions on these boards that I would like to play-test, and I have another of my own. I am trying to keep these "suggestions" under 300 points, where they might concievably make their way into a 1500 or 1850-point list.
Feel free to make your own, but please, no 10-man strong units composed entirely of juggernaut-riding aspiring champions. Cool as that might be.
Tzeentch "Gift-Giver" Chosen
<<EDIT: As Caluin says, infil = no followers. My bad. If you're ok with foot-slogging, you can stick to two champions with gift of chaos, and a couple of thralls for each champ. Otherwise, you gotta do things this way. It costs more.>>
242 points <<EDIT Removed infil to end controversy ... doubt that it'll help tho>>
Mark of Tzeentch
4x Gift of Chaos
Tzeentch sorcerers pass psychic tests automatically. There are ways to make this unit cheaper, but if you can't cast "Gift of Chaos" at least four times per turn, you average less than one spawn per turn against enemies with T4 or higher.
Against an enemy with T3 or less, you will spawn 2-3 models per turn. If you enter close combat with a 10-man unit, that means they drop to eight models (you should spawn the unit leader first), and now they have to deal with a couple of Chaos Spawn rampaging around in their rear rank.
You can accomplish the same thing for fewer points with a Chaos Lt., but it doesn't have the same potential. It does, however, work great for killing veteran sergeants, aspiring champions, and even characters, although invulnerable saves can get in the way.
"Gift-giver" HQ: 90 points
Mark of Tzeentch
Gift of Chaos
Both of these units do best in the rear rank of another, hardier unit. They sit back and spawn away while their lesser brethren absorb hits.
Chaos "Striders": 246
6x Upgrade to Champion
Move Through Cover
Yes, they cost as much as a bike unit, without any special wargear, and they die even easier. This unit is also guaranteed a first-turn charge. In order to keep them alive (on the chance that you don't get first turn) infiltrate them 1" behind a unit of normal Chaos Space Marines. With six aspiring champions you get 18 attacks, 24 on the charge.
You can also drop one champion, and tack on this Lt.
"Strider" Lieutenant: 110
2x Lightning Claw
Move Through Cover
People do not see this coming, even when you say "this unit has daemonic speed."
Personally, I prefer Slaanesh, so I often trade move through cover for a mark, but that's just me.
Anyway, there are some nasty combinations your enemy won't see coming. Enjoy.
Anyone else have some good ones (that cost less than 300 points)?
Last edited by Sabrewulf; January 6th, 2006 at 03:17.
Just a few quick points, as I don't really have time to give a full blown reply -
Chaos Hounds and Thralls prevent you from Infiltrating.
In the first unit, it's a bad idea to have more thralls than you do regular marines if you plan on using them for sacrificing. Due to the mixed armour rule, since they're in the majority you're going to lose a lot of them from the first volley of Bolter fire. They also bring down the majority toughness of the Chosen in the off chance that they score more hits than thralls. While this could be considered a good thing if you're planning on having some extra wounds in the squad, it's not so good if you are counting on being able to sacrifice them all.
Lastly, you might get some flak about how Tzeentch units cannot have Veteran Skills. It's been hotly debated in the past, and not something I really want to dreg up again, but just keep in mind that many people don't believe that Tzeentch Chosen or HQ units are allowed to take Veteran Skills.
I don't want to ressurect any old debates but i've never seen them before.
can anyone tell me what the problem is? the codex clearly says units with the mark of tzeentch cannot take veteran skills... sorcery takes up their full attention and rubric people don't have minds to learn. Where's the confusion?
Check out my Codex: Farmyard Animals here!
If anyone wants any kind of help writing fluff for any kind of GW army just ask.
Well, from looking at the rules for the thousand sons, It would appear to me that the debate is:
there are 2 sections for how the MOT applies to models, The first section deals with lords, lieutenants, chosen, and possessed. Under there it states nothing about veteran skills.
The second section deals with marines, and states that characters may not take veteran skills.
It seems pretty clear cut to me, on what units can and can't take whatever, but it seems as if this might be the core of the debate.
Of course I was not around these boards for the original debates, but that seems like one of those "open to interperatation" rules...
Then again, My codex is not the most recent printing of the 2nd version 3rd edition codex, so I could be completely off base here.
Seems like Daedelus just hit it on the head, but I don't have my codex right now, loaned it out. If I had it, I would check the section in the actual Tzeentch book of chaos on what the wording is, but I know that a Tzeentch player I know only gives veteran skills to his non troop units, and he has had few problems.
EDIT - One of my friends field a relatively insane Tzeench chosen unit. He fields 5 chosen aspiring champions on bikes with the winds of chaos power and some other wargear. Not sure about all the other wargear, but they end up about 500 points. Big waste of time unless you know how to play them and exactly what to use them for. I haven't been able to see his tactic being very useful, but he uses them to take out large mounts of troops ina short time.
Last edited by Mutuus; January 6th, 2006 at 01:09.
One of the biggest mistakes a 40K player can make is taking someone elses army to battle. Remember its your army, play it how you play it.
Sorry, but it simply says that a model with the mark of Tzeenitch cannot have any veteren skills the reasons given: rubic: mindless and can't learn, non-rubic: Must devote themselves to sorcery. Now the must devote themselves to sorcery clause seems to cover all the lords. lieutenents, chosen, and posessed.
Coupled by the fact that nothing in the paragraph in question excludes lords and the like, I have to conclude that it's a global statement of:
Mark of Tzeenitch = no veteren skills
It sucks, I wish it wasn't there; while it makes sense for the rubic boys, I wish the rest could have them. I guess it was intended to make the codex simpler by doing a straight across ban on them.
edit: Hmm. . . just realized that LordLink already made that point. . .umm ditto Lord! and now I step out of that debate, and have a thought more on topic. . .
I've been partial to a squad of chosen with 2-3 ac's tooled up for assault, then bodies to get their # to 10 and put them in a rhino to assault my opponent(bp's and hand weapon config on the normals.) Sometimes I go 1/3 flamer crazy, usually I leave them blank to keep the points down.) It's not a whole lot more than a normal assault squad, and 2 ac's really put the hurt on your opponent when they get into assault. I used to use them intermittanly and my friends where nervous wondering if it's a normal squad or my specal squad. . .ahh havn't played my normal chaos in a long time perhaps I should dust them off. . .
Last edited by JORMAGI; January 6th, 2006 at 02:49.
Chosen upgraded to aspring champions have access to the armory and can take daemonic abilities like any other aspiring champion, notice how all with abilities have been upgraded to champions. Hope that helps.
Oh god, what I have started?