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After looking at the CSM faq, in regards to a diffrent thread, It states that possessed are in fact counted as deamons.
Fliping back to page 12 in the Chaos Space Marine Codex, it states under summoning deamons that "Apart from deamon princes and nurglings, all deamons must be summoned onto the battlefield."
So putting two and two together, possesed must be summoned to the battlefield?
If this is the case, then damn, i'm getting me some possessed for my alpha legion.
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
That's a wonderful loophole, there, actually.
According to the FAQ + Codex, you are 100% correct - Possessed Marines will need to be summoned.
The only problem with it is the transport option that the Possessed squad gets... but, according to (very specifically) the rules + FAQ, you are correct and they are summoned.
Makes them worth getting, I'd say..
Ha...look at that....my chaos roomie gonna be pulling his possesed out.
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I'd use common sense here.. If something has a transport option, it likely wasn't the intention of the rules to have them summoned, regardless of poor wording.
However, you can't use common sense for some things, and neglect common sense for other things.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
And, in most cases, common sense loses to poor wording in GW rulebooks.
I would assume that since they are counted as Daemons in 4th Edition, and there is nothing (anywhere) that states they are not Summoned, then they are Summoned like pretty much all other Daemons (minus the few mentioned in the CSM codex).
You just have the catch that the actual summoned daemon entries in the CSM codex all state that they are summoned as an entry in thier unit Special Rules section. Possessed do not. They just have a transport option.
Well the fact that all the units that are actually summoned have the special rule 'Summoned' in their unit entry and Possessed do not is a good hint.
That and the list that mentions what is and isn't a daemon in the DH codex also lists Nurglings(who can't be summoned), Daemon Princes(Ditto), Daemonhosts, The Avatar, Daemonically possessed vehicles ect.
By your logic, the avatar and my daemon possessed Land Raider should be summoned.
Oh, and suffer from instability too, since according to the Codex, all Daemons suffer from instability. Damn it, my Dreadnought just vanished back into the warp!
I think that common sense, linked with rules to be found in the CSM codex will indicate, that even with the clumsy wording, Possessed marines are not summoned.
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Or, by reading the rules in the codex....This is a rule, clearly stated, in the codex. Because a unit doesn't have a "Summoned" rule in their codex entry does not mean that the rule, as stated on page 12, has no effect on them.Originally Posted by CSM Codex, page 12, Daemon Summoning
So, if you use common sense and the rules in the Chaos codex.... it is quite obvious that they will fall under this, until a later date where Games Workshop will, hopefully, clear the issue up better than the rule itself.
It's written how it's written - no matter how much you refer to "common sense," it won't change until GW changes it. If they had noticed it/wanted it changed, they would have stated as such in the FAQ on the site.
Note that it would not apply to Avatars, etc. because it is the Chaos codex.. not the Eldar codex. You can't start mixing rules from the codecies. The FAQ on the GW website cleared up the what is and what isn't a Daemon issue, so the reference to the DH codex no longer applies and is not a solid argument.
Well the list that mentions what is a deamon, and what isn't a deamon for the purposes of the DH codex is in the DH codex yes. The list that states what is a deamon and what isn't for the chaos codex is in the chaos FAQ.Originally Posted by Grey
Also, Deamon princes, and nurglings are exempt from this rule, as it states verry clearly in the rule.No, those are two units that are listed in the DH codex, for the purposes of the DH rules the effect Daemons. They are not listed in the choas Codex, or the Chaos FAQ as being deamons, and as such the chaos rules do not apply to these units.Originally Posted by greyWell acording to the rules, neither greater deamons, nor possessed space marines suffer from instability. Those are the only two types of deamons that don't. All other deamons listed in the FAQ, so everything thats generally aggreed upon, as well as deamon princes, will suffer from instability; yes.Originally Posted by grey
I'd like to see a situation where your dreadnought is called upon to take a moral test. If you do have that come up, what characteristic due you use to test for it?As stated before, either common scence is applied to every rule related situation, or it's not. you can't pick and choose the rules that best suit common scence, and the ones that are to be literally interperated.Originally Posted by grey
Although, possessed that count as deamons, may not actually ride inside their transport, as they are clasified as deamons. and transports can not carry deamons.
Originally Posted by Andusciassus
I feel my brain swelling from the buffoonism filling up the forum. They DO not get summon, simple as that, its an codex and there is bound to be mistakes. Why is this even being discussed, fluffy wise this makes this discussion pointless, they are possessed marines, half daemon and marine, they even don't come straight from the Warp, only throught possession. I may be a geek using fluff to point this out but on the actual description, they do not get summon.