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Before I go to bed, I was wonder if I could get a consensus on if Rhinos have any real use and how people use them if they do, because I have two~ one made (thinking of taking it apart) and the other not, b/c I am thinking of just order 2 predator sprues and make them predators~ unless I can see the light that is. Good night y'all.
i think they are almost useless with the new rules you can't assault out of them. they used to be really good. i guess they have limited use in a very unmobile army like 1000 sons, to get to a better place to shoot, but not much.
basically you load your troops into a tank with very little armour. on the first turn they shoot a couple(only need a couple) heavies at it and it explodes, being that the armour is so bad they prolly got a pen. hit so it blows up, not only did you lose a 50 point tank, your guys are now burning alive. so you lose some of them too.
or you get first turn. you race it (12") towards the enemy, and either.
launch smoke which means they only get glancing hits and prolly still blow it up and your guys burn alive, or surrond it and melta gun it, killing every single guy inside
get your CC guys out and stand there and impotently shoot your bolt pistols, wishing you had jumpers, and they shoot your guys to bits next turn and subsequently charge you.
i think it does come with a storm bolter or twin linked bolter, so you do get massive fire support that hits one guy, maybe wounds, and then he makes his save
Rhinos get you a guaranteed extra 6" with the whole 12" move and smoke launcher ploy. It may very well be destroyed but they need to roll a 6 after glancing and even then your marines cannot die from this.
If you choose to continue moving your troops around in your rhino then your opponent can penetrate its armour. Only on the worst case scenario damage roll of 6 will all your marines die. A roll of 5 will only kill 1 marine out of 10. And remember, the vecicle is destroyed on a penetrating hit damage roll of 4, 5, or 6 but only the first destroyed result your opponent rolls counts(you can't destroy an already destroyed vehicle). So a 53 pt. rhino is very good at protecting your troops, with a very small chance of you losing an entire squad every several games as its only downside.
In a Chaos army, about the only reason I see to use it would be for troops you need to get in close with the enemy, but they don't have Infiltrate as an option. In a Black Legion list, for example, that's pretty much just Possessed.
Although they do have the secondary effect of drawing heavy weapons fire away from your Defiler and other tanks for a turn or two :yes:
They are also great pieces to have on the field. They are very useful as mobile shields and you can use them in more then one way to annoy the opponent. Park them to lock units in difficult places or blocking line of sight for heavy fireing units.
The possibilities are endless.
I've learned this the hard way. I have nightmares about BloodAngel rhinos. They are everywhere... everywhere..!!
Sorry, I just watched some noob player (it was a 3000 pt game 3v3) and just watch two rhinos get smoked soooo easily. I donno man... I could go 12 inches, that cool but it has to hide in cover for a bit then... move around the cover and go forward. I donno... Infiltrate is cheaper, and for 40 bucks I could get two predators with the temps.
The problem I see there is that he had only two Rhinos. If you're going to do the Rhino Rush, do it right. More targets to shoot at means more Rhinos that are likely to make it to the enemy lines and accomplish something.Originally Posted by LictorInTheGrass
Say I have six Beserker squads. Two are mounted in Rhinos, the other four are not. What are the chances of those Rhinos making it to the enemy lines? Slim to nil.
What if I have all six squads in Rhinos? The chances of atleast a few of the Rhinos making the trip goes up considerably, especially if you might have invested into some Predators or Defilers for the enemy to shoot at instead of your coffins on wheels.
In the end though, infiltration is cheaper, safer and allows for surprise deployment. Rhinos have two things over Infiltration. First, the Rhino can be used in any game, where as Infiltration is only for two out of three on average. Second, tank shock. How many of you will shoot at a Rhino after it has dropped off its cargo? What about when it starts tank shocking your troops, or runs around behind your lines so that your falling back units can't regroup?
In your specific case, I suggest going with the Predators. Two Rhinos just doesn't seem worthwhile to me outside of a 500 point game. Predators are useful in any game.
In my BA army, I start taking rhinos at 1500. I go with two to transport 2 tactical squads. At 2500 I pick up a DP for a third squad. Also, I have 2 infiltrating scout cc ssquads, an assault squad, and a chaplain/DC. this combo moving forward is more than sufficient to keep my rhinos alive. In the past year, I've lost a rhino on the first turn once or twice, tops. I've had both survive to turn 6 a few times b/c they're relatively low priority targets.
Anyhow, I think it ultimately comes down to what sort of complementary units you'r fielding. Raptors are far worse than assault squads (but waaay more expensive). If you complement your force with those and maybe some of those awesome infiltrating squads with 2X plasma guns, you'll see your rhino survivability go waayyy up.
I stick to a coupla rhinos even though they got nerfed in 4th ed. and I've never had a problem with them. For assualting, they're mobile cover. And they're great for lateral defense even when you're not assaulting. Move 12. Disembark 2. Rapid fire. That's a 26" range rapid fire... And again, with CSM, you can double up on special weapons. they're nasty, bud, and fairly surivivable when used tactically.
Just my 2 cents.
I personally think they are OK, they give power armoured units the weakest transport of all.. haha haha ha....
It makes a cheap sheild for some units, and moves things much faster, though all i can say... you get what you get for the points you pay for them .
Rhinos are extremely useful, and should not be dismissed..
If nothing else, there is no realistic alternative, save infiltration, which can be useful but also has it's own problems, of getting important units across the board. The land raider is just too expensive, and also occupies a heavy support slot.
The trick is not to just charge them across the centre of the board and hope your opponent doesn't shoot them. Be clever about it.. use cover (provided the terrain has been set up in an interesting manner rather than the classic 'killing fields' approach, this should be feasable) and when you are in the open, pop smoke grenades.. You'd be surprised what the tenacious little things can survive.
Personally, I only field one right now, and had I known how effective it would be, I would have gotten one for each foot squad. My current rhino carries a squad of basic CC noise marines including my army's daemonhost, and mounts smoke launchers and a warp amp. Sometimes it will shot down before it gets near the enemy, as is to be expected, there is no surefire option in 40k.. But more often than not, provided I keep it moving carefully and make sure there are other targets around to worry about, it will drop the troops a little way off, and, while the enemy proceed to ignore an empty rhino, it can charge around tank shocking them with -3 leadership..
Also, you need to support your rhinos.. For example, include a squad of bikers, and have them turbo boost across the board while your rhino(s) trundle along behind. This means your opponent has something else to worry about, and may well be panicked into turning his guns on the bikers and ignoring the rhino.
Okay, there are some players against whom it isn't going to work. I tend to target rhinos first, for example, even if there are bigger targets on the board, because I know how effective they can be if left unchecked. But not everyone does this, and it's not always wise to do this either. Make sure it isn't, or better still, make it difficult for your opponent to take down your rhinos, and he probably isn't going to bust a gut to do it..